I've put a SSD into one of my computers, got a reduced boot time and a performance score of 7.8 using the Intel 160 Gb drive. I found what I thought was a good price for a solid state storage drive and bought it, a Kingston 64 Gb.
I put it in the computer, and put some video editing software on it, MS Works, and Quake 4. Last I put the virus protection in, Norton 360, It had to go to the C drive.
Everything works, the performance index went down a little but the boot time is the same. The Intel toolbox works with the Intel Disk, it takes a lot longer to optimize the drive, the toolbox will not optimize the Kingston disk.
Carl2
You haven't said how much you paid?
I have a 10,000 rpm velociraptor and get a score of 5.9 :o my lowest score by far.
That cost £120 for 150GB
Price is the only thing stopping me upgrading.
Don't generally talk about cost but you asked. The Intel 160 Gb was about $500, the Kingston 64 Gb was $135. That's not counting the raid array I tried before going to ssd, I got reads of 274 Mb, writes of 240 Mb but the same boot time, Win performance of 5.9. I bought the computer from Gateway and thay put in a Intel core I7 950 which costs about $550 and I felt I should spend a little extra. I had at one time in the past tried the WD raptors, think thay were 80 Gb each. I had two in a raid 0 wasn't inpressed by them. The Velocity raptors are better and I've heard good things about them.
Carl2
7.8 is an impressive score, ok it did cost but I guess that's the game, if you want the latest in PC technology you have to pay for it.
If I had the cash I would get one of them Intel drives, I know that people are getting some great speeds out of them.
Thanks for the info.. nice rig.
Quake 4? Do you play Quakelive Carl2? I do.
Found this comparison chart, looks interesting ...
http://www.techspot.com/review/181-solid-state-drive-roundup2/page7.html
I took a look at the chart, noticed the Intel was 80 Gb, 50 nm, a smaller drive generaly means lower write speeds, 50 nm means it's generation 1. Generation 2 is out and gen 3 will be selling fairly soon. I didn't like the lower R W speeds ot Intel but my experience with raid seemed to say these numbers didn't mean much. Intel is a large company and the majority of the reviews for Intel were very good.
I've got Quake 4 in the other computer, I play it every so often to see how long I can stay alive. Not my type of game, never liked war movies, joined the Air Force so I wouldn't be running around with a gun. I'm guessing Quake alive is an online game, haven't tried it.
Carl2
Is incredible how fast these things move on it seems only a little while ago that SSD was lunched and now they are at gen 3, well soon. Thanks for the heads up.
That chart must be out of date already.
Regardless of speed I personally think Intel is a good brand, I've never had a DOA cpu from them and they have been around for a long time now.
In the Air Force, I admire all members of the forces, they do a job that most people wouldn't want to do. Bravo
Quake live is a free multiplayer game, I used to play it quite a lot but haven't for a while now.
Just learned about this yesterday, here is the link
http://techpowerup.com/118152/New_Intel_Chipset_Drivers_Bring_TRIM_Support_for_RAID_Setups.html
You can use SSD in a raid array and have drivers that support raid. I've seen test results of SSD raid arrays, must be without trim, but now you can also have the trim.
Carl2
Once again Intel leading the way, very interesting.
I still can't justify the expense even after my recent spending fits on PSUs and what not.
I really got carried away, I got the same boot time from Gateway, as Asus, I paid twice the price for the Gateway. 1 min 40 sec is too long for the price. You're better off waiting till the dust settles and prices drop. Thay have just introduced Sata 111 motherboards and Sata 111 SSD's which are faster and prices are going down for the Sata 11's.
I usually wait myself, found there is a right time to build.
Carl2
Just looked it up, SATA III is also called SATA 6.0 Gb/s depending on who is talking about it.
Nice. 6.0 Gb/s, should be fast enough for a few years. :)
It seems they are getting ready to make much faster SSD's in the future.
Wowsers that is fast ! :o
Just seen two models of SSD's using Sata 3, naturally I had to look at the motherboards but it will have to wait this time. I'll mention this now while it's on my mind, Intel will be making smaller dies for SSD's this will result in lower costs but it also decreases the life of the SSD. Read this in one of the papers, bothers me a little.
Freddy possibly a good decision, the prices are already droping, they are supporting raid, generation 3 will be coming pulling the prices down further.
Carl2
I guess if we wanted to we could get an SATA III pci card for our current computers.
I don't like the sound of reduced life, particularly when its something as important as all my work, files etc. ::)
Me neither. So what are the lifespans of the SSDs then ?
As far as I can find out nobody really knows how long an SSD life span will be. The only sure way to know is with time. All we have to go on right now are lab test simulating what the expected wear will be.
This is a very in-depth article about SSD, Im still reading it.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/2738
Freddy,
a link to you'r question
http://www.imation.com/PageFiles/83/SSD-Reliability-Lifetime-White-Paper.pdf
The answers are at the end naturally.
Datahopa,
There is already a Sata 3 card out $29.00 with good reviews, thanks. Read the review and learned what trim is at last. Learned a few things about the SSD's. I'm not really worried about lifetime, I'm using 32 Gb of 148 Gb on C and about 6 Gb of 60 Gb on D. I believe more free space means more space to rewrite which will increase the life. I can backup on the original hard drive and place temp things on the hard drive. There are files that should be moved to a standard hard drive like internet explorer temp files ect.
Carl2
Thanks guys, looks like I have some reading to do. :P
Just when you think you are winning they come along with something new to learn about. :'(
You won in the fact that you waited till gen 2. The indexing should also be moved to a standard drive and there are others.
Just read about a $4000 conputer sys thay built at Tomshardware, Intel 965, watercooled, running at 4.2 Ghz. $1000 for the CPU, two 80 gb SSD's in raid 0 costs $800 at the time of the build.
Well Happy Easter.
Carl2
Quote from: Carl2 on April 05, 2010, 00:23:17 AM
The indexing should also be moved to a standard drive and there are others.
Do you mean you should set the windows 7 search indexing location to an HDD Carl2?
If so I guess that's to stop the SSD from writing over and over to the same place.
So what are SSD's made of then ? No moving parts I get, but is it like RAM or something ?
Also on a slightly related thing, I was looking at this :
http://www.saverstore.com/product/20038109/Freecom-USB-Memory-160GB-External-18-USB-20-Portable-Hard-Drive
I can't work out if that has moving parts or does it use USB flash memory ?
Is that the same idea as SSD ?
And yes, I thought I was doing well there, but now there's a whole new chapter to read :o
You can either just stop indexing or move the resulting data to the standard drive, Control panel, indexing ,advanced, indexing location. Same thing with internet options, general, browsing history, settings, move folder. Backups and restores should go to a different drive. Heard page filling should also be moved.
I'm putting documents, pics, videos on the standard drive also. I went through this thing of moving files to another drive a long time ago when virus's caused problems, Formated the drive and reinstalled the OS except for the worms that needed a tool to remove. These days I have Norton 360 which I like and seems to do a good job.
What size drive do you have?
Freddy,
I'd say it is close to flash memory, to make it R and W faster they use the controller that provides parallel paths for the data transfers, I know it also has ECC and the wear leveling software built in and the cache memory.
SCL has 10 times the lifetime, R and W are faster but is much more expensive.
To my understanding MCL is a 3 state device and offers more memory per cell.
Carl2
Freddy,
Did a search, New egg used to carry freecom, low ratings. A review to something similar, I think?
http://www.expertreviews.co.uk/external-hard-drives/270892/freecom-usb-memory-120gb
Expert reviews said it was a 1.8 external hard drive at 4,000 to 5,000 rpm. Low transfer rates.
Not familiar with your pricing so I have no idea in US dollers.
Carl2
Carl you beet me, :) this is what I was going to say.
I understand basically how most of a PC works, not in depth understanding but a grasp of what is going on, SSD however I find much harder to understand, how can a chip keep the data in it when the power if off, how do flash drives actually work.
Freddy that external drive must be an HDD at that price, it has one of the small form factor drives inside. That isn't mentioned on the page though.
I have an internal HDD 320GB, that's for games windows programs, and an External 320GB for my files and work oh and TV recordings, as I only us media center for TV these days.
Hmm thanks chaps, well I don't really know what to get. I have no real need for it. I have an internal 80GB drive that I use for XP and storage. It's working out fine that way, so I will probably stick to that. I don't save TV shows or anything like that.
Datahopa,
Worked in electronics ages ago, A transistor: in most circuits you put current in the base and out the emitter, this allows current to flow from the collector to the emitter, the base current compared to the collector is amplified, called beta.
A resistor or load between V+ and the collector form a voltage divider for a voltage output.
The field effect transistor, IGFET or Insulated gate feild effect transistor, JFET Junction Fet, work on the gate as the control input, The source is comparable to the collector of the transistor, the drain is comparable to the emitter of a transistor. The big difference is the fet uses voltage on the gate to control current flow from the source to the drain. Input resistance of the drain is very high therfore almost no current flow, A voltage put on the gate stays there like a voltage on a capacitor so if it is truned on it stays turned on. No voltage is off and it stays off. I forget how long SSD's can do this about 6 months to a year.
USB flash has been doing this for ages, I can remember talking to a salesman in the computer dept, He was talking about putting OS on flash drives about 4 years ago.
I hope I was able to explain this so it could be understood.
Datahopa, didn't mean to beat you. I think you're talking about !.8 Hard drive.
Freddy, is your motherboard Ide, sata, ahci? AHCI is needed for trim support.
Save your money till the dust settles.
Carl2
Yes there is a glimmer of remembering about that kind of thing from when I did electronics, it made some sense to me. Thanks.
My board is IDE and SATA (six of those). I don't know what trim support is so I won't miss it. I don't plan on upgrading this MB for a while, so I would be looking at SATA drives when eventually I do want to swap over.
Waiting for the dust to settle sounds like good advice !
Im in Freddys boat, I studied electrical engineering for a couple of years and your explanation makes some sense to me too, I think I now have a basic understanding of how this flash memory works.
Thanks Carl2
Im thinking I will wait about a year and then look at SSD drives for my personal use.
But this thread has given me some insight into SSD should a customer of mine require it.
I've learned some things during the time we have ben discussing this in the post, The size of the drive matters in the performance index, an Intel 80 Gb gives a 7.3 and the Intel 160 gb gives a 7.8. The performance index uses the OS drive to perform the test and storage drives do not matter. Sata 3 motherboards are out and sata 3 SSD'S are out, Win 7 can provide trim support for raid configurations. Prices are dropping and will continue as the gen 3 SSD's come out.
Carl2
Ok here is a thought.
On an HDD if a part of the drive died you would get a dead sector, doesn't happen much now but we have probably all had them.
So what happens if say one transistor in the memory on an SSD drive fails, does the drive detect a dead part and simply turn it off or does the entire drive fail?
My next quest ::)
Veeeeeerrrryyyy interesting...
Just read (most of) the Anandtech review of SSDs. Sounds like they still have a way to go but I do like OCZ's ability to listen to critisism.
I think I'll stick with my HDDs for the moment but it will definitely be factored into my next motherboard choice.
The main thing I notice using a 150GB velociraptor (plus 300GB and 500GB SATA2 drives) is moving 175MB files (south park have a new season out!!). They just move. No window with moving green bar. Just there.
Backup and large storage are my main concerns (external 1TB NAS) but I'll be keeping a more informed eye on SSDs.
oh, and carl2
You described a bipolar transister first (current device) and various FET (used in most ICs).
Wow. That took me back a few years to Tech College. Anyone remember h parameters?
A question to anyone...
How many electrons per bit do modern memories use?
Last I read (2-3 years) it was about 1-10 million per bit for RAM. I have no idea for flash but remember the article (new scientist) said they were working on 10,000 per bit. This would have lower power but I think speed generally comes from making everything smaller. That limit must be getting closer. 0.1nm = 1 atom -ish
Datahopa,
Pretty much the same my logic tells me, if a control arm for a platter dies, that plater is useless, If a semiconductor for a I/O bus dies the memory that bus controls is useless. If the head marks the platter, that portion of the plater stops R,W and that portion is marked bad and not used. If a semiconductor used for memory dies, frist there is error correction, I would think If ECC cannot read it the memory is bad and marked as so.
Pretty sure that semiconductors used for busses are underrated enough so this is not a problem, the individual memory semi's are not considered as important since there are G's of them, if one fails there is another to take it's place. Also there is the RW lifetime which they seem to feel is long enough for for the price. What is the lifetime of a computer?
Snowcrash,
OCZ entered into the SSD's early in the game so I'd expect thay would run into some of the problems, I was a bit put off by updating the firmware which I found I had to do with Intel anyway. Pretty much disgusted by the results of cloning which came with the Intel SSD, be honest and say you need a clean install of Win7 to get good results.
I remember the H parameters, learned all that to be replaced by the simple approxamation. I'd tried the WD raptors in raid 0, wasn't that impressed by them, again loading time not increased and since I don't move large files not much difference I could see.
During my days digital logic was using transistors, Linear devices were mostly transistors and thay began being made with Fets for high input impedences.
Carl2
Thank you for your answer Carl2, I did think that if a part of the SSD dies that the firmware would just turn that part off and from what you say it does seem that way.
I have a feeling that SSD drives will actually last easily the life of a computer, ok there might be some that fail but over all they should be fine for most users. Or like you say the manufacturers wouldn't be making them and selling them. I can't see a company like Intel putting their name on a product only to have it fail early on in its life.
With bipolar transisters or rtl (reister-transister logic, 74000 series), 1 transister can only drive a few transisters (1-5 ish). With FETs high input impedance (ttl, 4000 series) 1 transister can drive many others, practically unlimited but can easily be destroyed by static.
I have never seen a double gated FET
http://www.anandtech.com/show/2738/5
I guess this is to do with storing 2 bits per transister.
My WD velociraptor is good but I'm not that impressed. Just having a better WEI would make me feel better ;D
The slowing down of SSDs when they are fully used was new to me but as Anandtech point out they're still way faster then the fastest HDD for most aplications maybe with the exception of the cheap SSDs and full on data throughput.
I'm still wondering how long 10,000 re-writes is in terms of your 'puters life. I'd like to see that figure nearer 100,000.
I also didn't realise USB flash and SSDs suffer with data loss if left for 6 months to 1 year.
Just saw an article on SSD's and wanted to put a link in:
http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=119543
Datahopa should take a look at it, I'm going to check it again when my other machine is on.
Snowcrash,
I remember the 7400's RTL TTL, liked the Cmos (complementry metal oxide).
I still have a old RCA Cmos data book around. I do remember seeing dual gated fets, at the time we used them I think one gate was a siginal and the other gate was for strobing. Most of my work dealt with analogue circuits and we used operational amplifiers. I've just switched to using Dragon and I have begun dictating to remove any spelling errors.
I had wanted to mention while reading an article on solid-state drives it had mentioned that both the solid-state drive and the hard drive becomes slower pace the drive gets full.
Can anyone remember when the light emitting diode first came out? Everyone was wondering what the lifetime would be. My only hope is the lifetime of the solid-state drives will be longer rather than having a disposable solid-state drive.
Carl 2
Quote from: Carl2 on April 08, 2010, 23:09:41 PM
Just saw an article on SSD's and wanted to put a link in:
http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=119543
Nice find Carl2, very good tips on that page, a must read for anyone with an SSD.
Thanks for finding and posting it.
Found this snippet at the bottom of the pdf from a previous post on this thread...
[attachment deleted by admin]
I knew I saw that before, I hate to say this but is it slc or mcl? there is a factor of ten involved. If anyone in sales saw that the calculations are based on the slc.
The last line of 27 years would be 2.7 years.
Carl2
That would still be at 320GB/day which would be hammering the hell out of it.
Even heavy usage at 32GB/day would be 23 years. My oldest HDD is 5-6 years old
Hmmm!
I'd still want an intel one
All of the money in the world brings up many possibilities, SCL is a little faster and lifetime is increased by a factor of 10. The price is somewhere around double for the same capacity. I don't believe they are available with Sata 3 at this time. Another motherboard with Sata 3 would be nice. Trim support is available for raid now so it is possible to use raid.
Intel will be releasing the six core processor fairly soon. Possibly doing a build would be interesting.
Carl 2
Have looked into the 6 cores a bit, its good that Intel are moving forward but I have to say an SSD is going to make a much greater performance boost then the new 6 core CPU.
Still would be a nice rig to have, the latest SSD in raid with a 6 core CPU. Oh for the means to get it. ::)
I would enjoy having the extra 2 cores for rendering, but for the performance gain I doubt I would be able to justify the expense for a long time.
" Intel will be releasing the six core processor fairly soon. Possibly doing a build would be interesting"
I'd like to clarify that, Since I have the 950 which is more than I would have put into a build I'm not thinking of building a 980. Wouldn't mind having a P4 with Xp for haptek.
NVidia has graphics cards with the physics rendering.
Carl2
I have a dual boot for XP, and I also have virtual XP in Win7 but it's not really that good at graphics applications.
Does come in handy now and again.
ATI say their cards do support physics rendering, I know my HD4890 does, its something ive wondered about Nvidia and Ati seem to have their own system or something, needs more looking in to.
Ive got a couple of games that require NVIDIA PhysX engine to be installed in order to run, even though I don't have an NVIDIA card. Don't know if maybe that would help.
I've just switched to the faster computer which has the NVIDIA 285 video card, I visited the NVIDIA website to download their application in the control panel. It is much better than the one that came with the computer. The 285 video card is one step lower than the card that has the physics. I believe they are fairly highly priced. I had noticed that they have SLI and crossfire, I think that one is for NVIDIA and one is for ATI.
I have just tried using the Haptek player in this computer because of a problem I was having with jiggly in the other computer. I do not have the problem with jiggly in this computer and I am certain it is because of the video card.
I have fairly poor graphics in quake four, it almost seems like a waste of a video card. It does seem that applications start quicker in this computer, I would say that Dragon loaded in approximately one half the time.
Carl 2
Not sure if this will work for everyone but I have made a link that searches Dabs for Intel SSD drives.
http://www.dabs.com/category/components-and-storage,hard-drives/11026?q=intel%20ssd%20drive
Just tried the link which works okay, the prices are britishish, plus shipping would be further for me.
Carl2
Just found out this computer, the Asus which has an Nvidia G 100, has physX, just disabled the acceleration and the problem with Hapteks Jiggly went away.
Carl2
Gone a bit too off topic
Start a jiggly one?
Yes off topic, Jiggly is under software. I'm still checking the SSD's at newegg, Plexor which earned one of the best names for CD and DVD players and burners has entered the SSD market. Like to see the reviews after they sell some, Not selling the Sata 3 version yet.
Carl2
The 500GB SSDs are here
http://www.ebuyer.com/product/190530
a snip at £1100
So the SSD's are getting to a sensible size now just not a sensible price. ???
On the pluss side I see they are giving away free delivery on it LOL.
Just checked it out at newegg for US money, You buy computers for that price. I'm lucky because I don't use much space, ran 2 80 Gb in raid 0 for ages and never came close to filling them. I'm still looking at the prices which seem to be holding steady, small ups and downs with sales.
Carl2
I thought I would have a quick look at where we stand with SSD drives today, they are still expensive compared to HDD but I think its becoming feasible.
Really it would be good to have one for Windows, programs and games, all my work and documents could quite happily still live on the external HDD.
So at a push, if I am selective with which games I have installed I reckon a 120GB drive would just about do it.
If you go for a mid speed SSD, without spending too much but still a heck of a lot faster than HDD you could be looking at something like £150.
Hmmm ::)
http://www.ebuyer.com/product/236497
All the dodgy SSDs have been engineered out so all makes are pretty much of a muchness these days.
Don't get too hooked into the MB/s times as they're all far faster then HDDs.
The difference between a 120GB and a 128GB is how much is left spare for caching. They're both 128GB in reality. There are still some latency problems once all the memory locations are used but again they're still way faster then HDDs. I would go for OCZ or Intel but that's my preference.
Have found this product that I've not seen before.
http://www.ebuyer.com/product/222310
It's a 500GB HDD with 4GB SSD hybrid. I have no idea how they perform.
Everyone noticed that SSD's are coming up for slightly over a £1 a GB lately ?
I was thinking only today that now could be a time to take the plunge and get an SSD.
Yes I noticed :D
I was hoping they'd be nearer 50p / GB by now.
I really would like a 240-256GB one but...
Nice to see there is a fair range of 2.5 - 3.5 mounting kits.
http://www.ebuyer.com/search?page=1&sort=relevancy&limit=10&q=25+mount&filtercat=386 (http://www.ebuyer.com/search?page=1&sort=relevancy&limit=10&q=25+mount&filtercat=386)
Some of the drives come with the 2.5 - 3.5 mounting kits I noticed.
This one does, it's the one that caught my eye, people say in the reviews that it came with the kit.
http://www.ebuyer.com/268693-corsair-120gb-force-3-ssd-cssd-f120gb3-bk-cssd-f120gb3-bk (http://www.ebuyer.com/268693-corsair-120gb-force-3-ssd-cssd-f120gb3-bk-cssd-f120gb3-bk)
I've never bought anything from ebuyer are they any good ?
I like them, have spent quite a few quid with them, of course shop around but they do have good prices too.
What I like about eBuyer is they only list stocked items.
What I don't like is they're a bit sneaky with the postage, always defaults to £10 but there are cheaper options and deals.
Most are pretty much of a muchness. Beware sites with no stock as they often order it then sent it to you.
Here in the States, the price of solid state drives is getting near to the "dollar per Gig" mark, which is very nearly affordable. If I can ever save the money to get both a 60GB drive and Windows 7 Pro (I like having more control over my computer than Home Premium affords), then I'll probably do so. And then spend the next week getting everything back to the way I like things. :)
W7 is nice Dave, there are rumours that W8 will be out late 2012. I like my machine enough at the moment to wait that long before doing an upgrade, I just hope W8 is going to be as good as W7 has been.
What kind of power connectors do SSD's use ? Are they like the new (not IDE) HD/SATA ones ?
Yes its all SATA the data cable and power connecter.
When I get one it will be SATA 3 even though my motherboard doesn't support 3, the next PC will and the SATA 3 drives are backward compatible with SATA 2 so there shouldn't be any problems.
But I also know these SSD drive installation and Windows install don't always go to plan, and although all the SATA 3 drives are backwards compatible some are more compatible than others.
So I'm ready for the challenge should it arise.
Good to know thanks :thumbsup:
Quote from: DaveMorton on September 21, 2011, 23:25:16 PM
Here in the States, the price of solid state drives is getting near to the "dollar per Gig" mark, which is very nearly affordable. If I can ever save the money to get both a 60GB drive and Windows 7 Pro (I like having more control over my computer than Home Premium affords), then I'll probably do so. And then spend the next week getting everything back to the way I like things. :)
LOL - Looking back on this post, it's like a self-fulfilling prophesy. I got my new 60GB SSD and Windows 7 Pro yesterday (along with a 4GB RAM upgrade), and I'm just about to shut off my box and start upgrading. Wish me luck, Gents! :D
Grats :woot:
Good luck !
Sounds good, the new bits I mean :)
Good luck with the install, don't forget to put in the chip set driver, one of the first things I would recommend doing after the Windows install.
But you probably know that :D
I shall be building my first SSD system soon for my Dad. He's got more money to burn than me. :D
Well, the major part is completed, and I'm back online with my desktop. :)
I had some relatively minor issues, such as no SATA cable being supplied with the new drive (it's a 2.5" drive for laptops, so I should have expected it), and one of my new RAM sticks was bad out of the box, but these were minor. I'll RMA the memory in a bit, once Windows is done installing all 163 updates. :)
Oh, BTW. Boot time right now? 25 seconds, from hitting the power, to seeing the last hourglass go away. The BIOS screen flashes by too fast to see. :D
What a pain getting a dead stick of RAM, I know you don't sound to bothered about it Dave but to get all the bits and then find something not working I find very annoying :very-angry:
Oh, trust me, Data; I'm as annoyed as H311, but there's nothing I can do about it except run through the RMA process and wait for a new stick, so there's no point in letting it boost my blood pressure. Luckily, I found a setting in the BIOS that allows me to run the RAM management in "unganged" mode, which means that the sticks don't have to be paired. Thus, I have 5GB of RAM for the time being. This also means that I can actually upgrade the RAM one stick at a time, rather than in pairs. I'll be able to get more RAM faster, this way, so maybe having found a bad stick was a blessing in disguise? :)
I'm not sure but I'd expect the memory to be running slower due to not dual channeling (LGA 1155, 1156) or triple channeling (LGA 1366). OK for short term but not ideal.
25 secs sounds pretty good. I run a 10,000 rpm drive and will time mine on next boot and post here. I think it's about 90-120 secs.
I didn't sit there with a stopwatch when I had XP installed, but many was the time when I would turn on my box, head into the kitchen for some tea, and come back to still sit there in front of the screen for several seconds before I could use the computer. Now granted, I didn't have to brew the tea (it's bottled Green Tea, after all), but the time frame was well within the 2 to 2-1/2 minute range. In that respect I'm well pleased. :)
Nice Dave, I hope too, that you have a nice and long honeymoon with your new Win 7 install, I bet even after its been installed for a while that its going to boot super quick with the SSD,
Hmm... I'm thinking it's about time to get one, how about we start a "Get Data an SSD Fund" :mutley:
Come on then, what's its WEI score.
The WEI overall score is only 3.9, due to both the fact that I'm using an older graphics card, and the fact that I've got 3 monitors, but the Disk Operations and Memory scores are 7.3 and 7.0 respectively. :)
7.3 for the disk :o, that is a huge jump from our HDD's 5.9, very impressive Dave.
You know I was thinking of getting a 250GB SSD or something around that size but the prices are just too high, now Dave has given me the idea to get a 60GB drive just for windows, then later on get a 128GB or maybe even bigger if the price is right, for the games.
Hmmm, food for thought.
I want one as a games drive as well and 120GB doesn't quite cut it. I'm holding out 'til it gets to 50p per GB.
My machine boots in approx 90 secs, 40 secs for desktop to appear. Win7 boots much faster than dear old XP.
Im think having two SSD's could actually have its benefits too, lets say the SSD drives do suffer with ageing, wouldn't it be the best plan to age a smaller cheaper driver that has Windows and the page file ect on, cheaper to replace and looking after your larger games and programs SSD.
I'm actually warming to the plan.
One slight concern is, will a 60GB drive actually be big enough, I have Win 7 installed since it came out on to a 64Gig partition and I only have 19% free right now, as with all MS OS's Win 7 keeps growing as it gets older even when you know how to clean up the drive and delete all that unwanted crap, I think it will do it but it would need a little managing as time goes by.
Well, I'm finally at the stage of installing programs, rather than fiddling with folder locations. I had read an article on how to "move" the relevant folders that seemed VERY promising, so I printed it out, and set to work. What a mistake! I ended up having to re-install Windows a total of THREE TIMES! It did, however, lead me to find the correct way to move the folders, and everything is working great, so I'm happy. I'll try over the next few days to write an article that outlines the process, and add it to my blog.
You had to install it 3 times, interesting, Dave did you get the OEM version of Win7 I'm guessing you didn't as I don't think it would allow 3 installs that close together, but maybe things have changed with 7.
Three installs with identical hardware profiles, in that short a period of time (less than 24 hours) actually doesn't raise a red flag with $M. However, change the hardware profile, even a tiny bit, or stretch that out to over a 72 hour period, and then they get suspicious. At least, that's been my experience with XP installs, and I see no reason why 7 should be different.
I hear what you are saying Dave, but the OEM version is very touchy with installs compared to none OEM, once you have activated the software you cant do more than one more activation with in a month I think it is, I have come across this problem with XP in the past, that's why I asked if it was OEM or not.
Yes, this is OEM (FAR less expensive that way, and technically, enough parts were changed to warrant calling it a "new" install). It may well be that what I've experienced in the past was due to my performing the activation as the very last step (even after updates). The activation process with 7 was completely invisible, so I'm not certain at which point it occurred, but I'm pretty sure it has. So I dunno. :)
I noticed that you can get SSD drives as small as 8 gig for about £30, just thinking aloud really but that could be an option to use just for paging, temp internet files etc.
@ Dave, So my friend, you have had the SSD for a while now, how would you say its performing in Windows, is it as good as you expected or maybe even better, what has the experience been like?
I think that had I stuck with XP Pro, or if I had just gotten a much larger SDD, I would have been much happier.
It seems that Windows 7 is FAR MORE stubborn about the locations of certain files than XP ever was, and while I was finally able to "beat the OS into submission", several things are now broken as a result, and my WEI is worse now than it was before. So I'm just limping along for now, gathering up my strength, and will do a wipe/reinstall in a week or so, using the "default" options, and using the libraries functionality to link my documents, rather than trying to convince Windows that it needs to store things somewhere other than the C drive. All in all I'm not happy, but I have nobody to blame but myself. :(
Sorry to hear that Dave :(
I know everyone has their own way of doing things the way they like. All I did, thanks to suggestions from Data is a very simple set-up. I got a 1TB drive and split that in to two partitions. Windows went on a 200GB partition and everything it likes to associate with itself. Games and big stuff like graphics programs go on the other larger partition. Also stuff like downloads and things I like to keep handy.
And finally I have another smaller internal drive which I use for the W7 backups and system restore or whatever they call it now. That's all that drive does.
It seems to work well for me. WEI is pretty good too.
Windows 7 is growing on me, and if it were functioning at full capacity, I'd probably actually grow to love it. I'll let you know once I get my screwup fixed, and have had a chance to really explore things. :)
OK matey, I hope you can get it the way you like. That libraries feature you mention is quite useful I agree.
Good luck ;D
Me and to a lesser extent Snowy used to do the same thing and move file locations in XP, we then both gave up the fight in 7 ???, only move my documents now, windows doesn't complain about that, thank god.
Still think Win7 is the best OS when you weigh up the pros and cons.
In a perfect world, it would be best to have the files that windows accesses and writes to the most located on the SSD for maximum benefit I guess.
My biggest gripe isn't so much the installed programs, most of which give you a choice of installation folders (except Belarc Advisor, for some strange reason), but the ProgramData directory, which Win 7 does complain about if it's moved, and which can reach an unwanted size. I suppose I could go through that folder, and move the contents of any new app installs to a separate location, and then alter the registry each time, but that's a HUGE hassle. {sigh!} maybe M$ will heed the demands of the technically inclined, and produce a service pack that allows for those folders to be re-located. There are a lot of individuals now who want to install Windows on smaller SSD's, but can't really do so efficiently because of these stupid limitations.
My C: drive is 64 GB, had windows 7 installed since its release, plenty of programs installed into program files and program files X86 and I still have 29 GB free on the drive, I'm not sure why you are so concerned about disk space Dave, you must have plenty of free space available, haven't you?
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* Dave, why move all the program files anyway? Any large program/game can be installed anywhere (with a few exceptions). Windows pagefile really wants to be on the SSD to speed things up.
I would put My Docs on another drive but that's easy peasy (though some programs do still put data in the old location). Right click My Docs, goto 'location' tab and set to where ever.
As Data says, we both try to work with windoze these days, it's easier.
On a different SSD note. My friend is trying to install a SSD into and old 478 mobo and having a major issue with the BIOS not seeing the drive. Latest BOIS is 2004/5 so I think he's onto a loser.
This is a warning for anyone trying to upgrade an old machine.
And also a possible Xmas prezzie for Data. Want a nearly new 60 GB SSD by OCZ? Not seen it yet but expect it to be SATA 2 not 3.
Quote from: Snowcrash on November 19, 2011, 12:57:21 PM
On a different SSD note. My friend is trying to install a SSD into and old 478 mobo and having a major issue with the BIOS not seeing the drive. Latest BOIS is 2004/5 so I think he's onto a loser.
This is a warning for anyone trying to upgrade an old machine.
And also a possible Xmas prezzie for Data. Want a nearly new 60 GB SSD by OCZ? Not seen it yet but expect it to be SATA 2 not 3.
Does sound intersting Snowy, when you get the time can get the model number and asking price then PM me
Thanks :thumbsup:
PS.
Is he sure it's the BIOS not seeing the drive, I mean it could be a faulty drive.
Yes.
He has a SATA, PCI card and it works fine in windows but he's unable to boot from the card (still working on that one)
When he plugs it into the onboard SATA the BIOS doesn't see it. Apparently.
It's my old 478 Gigabyte board.
I guess part of it is that I'm just spoiled. Moving the Program Files folder for a fresh install of XP was simple: just boot to safe mode as Admin, XCOPY all the files, run regedit to change the C to an E on a few dozen registry entries and you're good. The nice thing about it was that then XP knew to install apps to that drive by default. Even programs like Belarc Advisor installed in the right place.
As to why I want to move the folder in the first place? Just my "Game files" folder (where I've installed all of my games, and actually on it's own drive) is 48GB in size. I "lost" my original "Program Files" folder (and a few apps that I no longer have install files for) was nearly twice that size. {Lord, I'm not looking forward to re-installing everything}
I'm currently looking for where the setting in the registry is for keeping the "default" install location for apps and such. If I can find that, then it will make installing my programs again so much simpler.
When I install stuff and want it somewhere else I just change the default install path to wherever want it to go... or am I missing something. I mean at the very start of installing when it gives you the option dialogue.
That's great... For apps that actually give you that choice (the overwhelming majority do), but even then, much of the time you can't simply change the drive letter, and have to hit Browse, copy the "ultimate" directory name (just in case), navigate to where you want to put the program, and generally jump through a lot of hoops to get it where you want it. For one or a dozen applications, that's only a minor thing. But when you have upwards of a hundred or more apps to install, then it gets to be a pain. :)
I know I'm making this sound worse that what it actually is, but it's still like pulling teeth to me, and I'm not looking forward to it.
Ah I see, thanks for explaining. Yeah I imagine it is a headache for you. :(
In the past when I have done fresh installs I used to install everything asap. The last couple of times I just install something as I need it. That can be a pain I suppose if it is a big program though and you are in a hurry.
Well, I FINALLY got everything more or less sorted out, and the system seems to be stable now.
First, my WEI, then a 'snapshot', if you will, of the various bits of storage media I work with.
All in all, I'm quite happy with the setup now, and 4.7 is a darned site better than the 3.~whatever it used to be. And yes, that does represent nearly 4 terabytes (TB) of storage.
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Glad you got there in the end.
Think you hold the record for the most drives :o
One question, is 55.7 GB the size the SSD has given you after formatting or is the little 99.9MB drive a small partition on the SSD?
They are both on the new SSD. Something Windows 7 did on it's own, without prompting. I guess the tiny partition is where Windows places useful data like BitLocker encryption data and the boot manager/files. As to why it's only showing up as 55GB, I have no idea. But it seems to work now (for the most part). :)
You always lose space after formatting, the FAT or File Allocation Tables, actually takes space to create, so the bigger the drive the more you lose.
That little drive seems odd though, was it hidden to start with?
I know Windows tends to leave some of the drive behind, don't know why that is but I have never seen one that has Data on it, they have all been blank and hidden for me, maybe its something to do with SSD, interesting.
The "missing" drive space is probably on a "super-hidden" partition, used by the government, for various nefarious purposes.
Quote from: DaveMorton on November 21, 2011, 21:37:09 PM
The "missing" drive space is probably on a "super-hidden" partition, used by the government, for various nefarious purposes.
Yup... that'll be it :alien:
Not totally sure but I do believe a 60GB drive is actually 64GB and the extra 4GB is used a temp swap drive to speed up data storage due to the weird way they work.
But it's only 99.9MB so maybe I'm wrong and you lot aren't paranoid. You're only paranoid in they're NOT talking about you.
Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean that they aren't out to get me. :P
Actually, OCZ sells this drive as a 60GB, but I've done the calculations, and it's 60,000,000,000 bytes, based on 1000, which translates to only 55.9GB, based on 1024 - It's the same old thing, trying to make something sound better than it really is when you're selling it.
But the whole "CIA stole 4Gig from my drive" sounds cooler. :)
Think I'm going to order this SSD, same price and specs as the OCZ but comes with an adapter bracket, also shed loads of positive reviews.
Any thoughts?
http://www.ebuyer.com/268693-corsair-120gb-force-3-ssd-cssd-f120gb3-bk-cssd-f120gb3-bk (http://www.ebuyer.com/268693-corsair-120gb-force-3-ssd-cssd-f120gb3-bk-cssd-f120gb3-bk)
Looks like a good buy.
Has the speed of an OCZ Vertex (£160) and a price of an OCZ Agility (£130).
My Dad has the Agility. Not sure of the difference between "Sandforce Controller" and "MLC NAND Flash" but I think this is how they differ. I may be comparing apples and oranges as this is where I lose it. :-X
Well after doing a bit more digging around I'm having second thoughts about the Corsair 120GB drive, I found lots of unhappy people who are getting nothing but problems with it.
Reviews (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=20-233-181&SortField=0&SummaryType=0&Pagesize=10&PurchaseMark=&SelectedRating=-1&VideoOnlyMark=False&VendorMark=&IsFeedbackTab=true&Page=2)
Then I went looking at the OCZ Agility 120gb reviews and I found the same type of thing but it must be said, fewer problems over all with the OCZ.
Summing up, lots of people are getting BSOD from SSD's many are complaining of the drives disconnecting by themselves, file corruption is another problem as is getting the BIOS to even see the drives. One must also be prepared to update the firmware a few times a year because none of the manufacturers seem to be able to get it right.
I'm actually thinking SSD isn't right yet and there are many problems with them, it's a shame because I really want one, Ho Hum.
If its going to be an SSD it's looking like this one
http://www.ebuyer.com/268244-ocz-120gb-agility-3-ssd-agt3-25sat3-120g-agt3-25sat3-120g (http://www.ebuyer.com/268244-ocz-120gb-agility-3-ssd-agt3-25sat3-120g-agt3-25sat3-120g)
But I have the feeling its not going to be a smooth journey. BUT I like a challenge ;)
Since I can't really find any software to help diagnose my problem, I've decided to test the drive in the same way that I initially discovered that there may be problems. But this time, I'm going to do it the "smart" way (I think/hope!). I'm keeping 7 on it's current drive for now, and I'll set up a dual boot system with XP on the SSD, and just run in XP until I either see a problem, or until the middle of January, whichever comes first. If no problems, then I'll have the fun of "trading places" with the Windows installs (oh, joy!). If I see a problem with the Xp install, then it's back to the OEM for the SDD. And tears. Lots of tears.
I have been keeping an eye on the SSD market and the only ones I would trust is the OCZ and Intel ones.
Been reading some of the reviews and noticed one with a plextor reference. Not seen them for sale but I bet they're pricey.
I'm surprised at needing drive firmware updates. Thought they'd pretty much sorted the teething problems.
I only have experience of one and all was plain sailing. So far anyway.
@ Dave, that does sound like a reasonable plan, I hope you can get to the bottom of the problem without having to RMA.
@Snowy thanks for the info.
Well I noticed that Amazon dropped the price of the OCZ to £125, best price I've seen it and I couldn't say no, its been ordered and will be here soon :yahoo:
Great news, Data! Just make sure to apply any firmware updates, and everything should be "hunky dory"! :)
Quote from: DaveMorton on December 15, 2011, 15:49:03 PM
Great news, Data! Just make sure to apply any firmware updates, and everything should be "hunky dory"! :)
Yes good advice, I've already got the firmware and tools to update it :thumbsup:.
I was thinking of partitioning the drive too, apparently it can be done so will probably give it a go. I plan to split it into 2 equal parts, I have had win 7 on a 64 gig partition since it came out and I still have 27 gig free. I think it will be ok as long as I keep the windows partition tidy.
From what I understand, "keeping the Windows partition tidy" is a bad idea, if you're referring to defragmenting the drive. Windows 7 is supposed to take full advantage of the newer technology that's used in SSDs, making drive defragmentation not only unnecessary, but also causing the drive to wear out prematurely. In fact, several articles I've read state that Win 7 disables the defrag tool for SSDs, for exactly that reason.
Oh yes I wasn't going to defrag the drive, already read up on that being a bad idea but I will be deleting all the crap over time, temp files, old restore points and pre service pack files that get stored just in case you want to revert.
That's basically what I meant, I admit I didn't describe it very well.
I more or less figured that was what you meant, but I wanted to make sure that the point was made, for the benefit of future readers of this thread. :) I knew that you knew better.
Keep us updated Data, would be interested to see how this works out :)
I just read from page 1 to 9 to see what is going on, DaveM has an interesting setup. I did notice something about page filing which upset me a bit, in the past I noticed a computer slowed down considerably and I could see the HD lite on the computer flicker, to my reasoning the sys memory was over worked and the Hard drive had to handle the extra work by reading and writting what the sys memory should be doing. In those days to fix this problem we installed larger sys memory.
Carl2
Hello Carl, haven't seen you around for a while, hope you are having a good Christmas :)
And yes I agree, if you see the computer page the hard drive then the best thing to do is add more RAM, it's still the same today.
New Years now, we have to learn to write 2012. Since I'm redoing this computer I made system images, bootable repair disks, drivers and ect for the computer. The hard drive has a partition but I'd like another hard drive and maybe a newer video card. Sata hard drives are going for around $100 or so, an Intel SSD 120Gb Santa 2 is $169, still thinking about buying it.
Carl2
Why not get a SATA 3 SSD Carl, it will work on a SATA 2 interface and also be forward compatible with SATA 3, you can't lose really.
I just ordered the SSD, sata2, Sata3 is $100 more, both computers use Sata 2 so I more than likely won't need a sata 3 for quite a few years and by then the sata 3 prices will be down. My wei is low for the graphics but I don't know if I'll be able to see a difference. I'll probably put off installing any software, the delivery from newegg is usualy pretty quick.
Carl
Congrats Carl
$100 more for a SATA 3 :o, must be an Intel thing, it certainly wasn't the case when I got my OCZ SATA 3.
Looking forward to the WEI score, I wonder how the Intel drive will compare to the OCZ, you have 7.8 to beat ;)
I've got an Intel 160 Gb sata2 on another computer along with a kingston 60 gb SSD and a 918 Gb hard drive. Wei is 7.8 for that computer, seems like the 7.8 and 5.9 are standard numbers for SSD and hard drives.
A raid setup still gives 5.9 for hard drives even though software will show it increases read write performance by a large amount. I tried out the raid setup and boot time was the same as one standard hard drive. I got fed up and got the SSD which reduced the boot time.
Carl2
I received the Intel 120 Gb drive yesterday and installed it in this computer in the evening so it's up and running now. It came with the cables and a software disk for instulation instructions. I removed the old drive and placed the new drive below it (heat) and put them both in. Disconnected the cables from the old drive and started with windows 7 in the dvd. After the Win 7 install I reconected the older drive.
Win 7 takes about 25 Gb of the 111 Gb shown for the drive. The wei is 7.3 for the SSD, I'm not sure but I thing the graphics scores may have gon up also, have to check. The rest of the scores are: Processor 7.1, Memory 7.1, Graphics 4.5, graphics gaming 5.3, and disk 7.3.
I installed net framework v 4 which lets me start an application installed on the old drive without reinstalling it, very nice. I still have to find and install the Intel SSD toolbox as well as install the programs.
Carl2
Interesting Carl, I wonder why you only got 7.3 from the SSD this time.
Is the mobo only SATA 1?
Have you not got AHCI enabled on the mobo?
I checked the WEI graphic scores, they remained the same. I do know the larger the drive the higher the R W numbers will be, I put in the Intel tool box, it fixed a prefetch thing. turned off any defrag for the ssd. Ran the trim but still have the 7.3. I'd say it boots faster, things were quick enough before so.. It may be a little helpful for some things but at this time I'm not sure which. I have Paint shop pro, Dragon 10.1, Zabaware and Norton which wants to be on the C drive.
I just checked and norton Is on the original hard drive, I looked in the norton folders but I'm not sure which application gets it up and running.
Carl2
Quote from: Carl2 on January 06, 2012, 00:45:26 AM
I just checked and norton Is on the original hard drive, I looked in the norton folders but I'm not sure which application gets it up and running.
Carl2
Don't know that much about Norton but...
If you run " Msconfig " by typing it in to the start search box then have a look in Startup programs you should be able to see the path where Norton is running from.
I'll give you a little more info, Norton was installed on the orginal hard drive, another Win 7 OS was installed on the SSD and is now the C drive. The original hard drive was reconnected and is renamed Drive (E:), I can find Norton 360 on E. I know if I reinstall Norton it will want to install on the C drive and I' d rather it was on the regular hard drive.
The C OS knows nothing about the programs on the programs on the (now E) hard drive. I can get an AI chatbot program on the E drive to work ( after installing Netframework v4) to work by clicking on the application.
Carl2
I'm really surprised that Norton is happy to run in the configuration you have there, it's a new one on me, still if it is working and its how you want it then it sounds ok, but like I said before, I don't know that much about Norton.
I just hope that it is checking Windows on C: drive and not the old Windows install on the HDD.
I would have thought too that if Norton is not installed onto the SSD that there might be a slight drop in performance, sounds reasonable.
Misunderstanding, the chatbot runs, Norton will not so there is no antivirus. Moving backwards, looking into the SSD wei of 7.3, my mistake I did not use AHIC. I'm using a lcd tv with this computer, great for this setup where I watch hulu tv but it will not display the Bios setup properly. I had to change the monitor to get into it. So windows 7 is now on tne SSD but not using AHIC, if I change to AHIC windows will not boot.
My thought is to change the bios to AHIC and boot from the DVD drive and reinstall windows.
I have a few personal problems and I don't think I am thinking correctly so I'll wait until I get a reply from you.
Thanks in advance.
Carl.
That's ok Carl, you can enable AHCI after a Windows install, I haven't actually done it but this is what you do.
I would make sure you have everything backed up before you do it, just in case you do need to install windows again, should something bad happen.
Click Start, type regedit in the Start Search box, and then press ENTER.
Locate and then click the following registry subkey:
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE / System / CurrentControlSet / Services / Msahci
In the right pane, right click Start in the Name column, and then click Modify.
In the Value data box, type 0, and then click OK.
On the File menu, click Exit to close the Registry Editor.
After this, restart your computer, go to the BIOS and enable AHCI. When you log in to Windows again, you'll notice the installation of drivers for AHCI. Another restart will be required to finish the driver installation.
Good Luck :thumbsup:
These are the steps I took to enable AHCI on my XP install, and it worked flawlessly for me. Win 7 didn't need this procedure, as AHCI is natively supported, but XP needs it to see the newer generation of SATA drives properly, and to gain the performance benefits that AHCI offers. :)
Data,
Made a restore point, changed the start to 0, on restart I changed to Ahic, It booted and loaded windows and installed the drivers, I restarted and it went into windows again. Tried the WEI and it is 7.6, why not 7.8?
Kidding 7.3 was okay 7.6 is better will I notice any difference? I've got a quicker load time, will I have a program that will be able to use the extra speed, possibly but I don't think so.
Anyways that was a great tip, I didn't want to erase the whole thing and reinstall.
Dave,
I didn't relize you were working with XP, I thought there was something about needing Win 7 For something
trim maybe.
Carl
When I started out on this adventure, I had Windows XP 32 bit. I wanted to upgrade, so I got more RAM, an SSD and Win 7 Pro 64 bit, all at about the same time. Then things got... Um... Interesting. I switched back to XP at one point in the process, but then I discovered the root of the problem (SSD Firmware needed "fixing"), and from that point on things have been great. :)
Glad it worked out.
I guess you might notice a little extra speed out of the SSD, if nothing else the drives are supposed to have AHCI enabled, so it's just good to have it working correctly and not in compatibility mode.
Data,
It worked out great, I downloaded and used the Intel SSD toolbox, surprized it didn't catch the Ahic. Hte hardest part was moving the monitors around to see the Bios. Changing the numbers was very easy, good instructions.
Dave M,
I originally started with the SSD because I bought a Gateway gaming rig, for me plenty of money. The boot time was over 1 and a half min. I tried two HD in raid, got good read write number but still the WEI 5.9 and still 1 and a half min. Fustrated I put in a intel 160 gb SSD. This gets me 7.8 and a more reasonable boot.
Good luck with Morti, are you going to release it for download? I'm playing with Chatbot designer Pro, still new and needs more work.
Carl2
I just came across this now that I have all the SSD's I'm hoping that I'll need. A link to Tom's Hardware for the 2112 reviews. http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/ssd-review-benchmark,3115.html (http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/ssd-review-benchmark,3115.html)
Carl2
Thanks Carl, that is a handy link.
Two points.
The OCZ are still right at the top when it comes to speed and performance.
The next gen of SSD's are going to be too quick for SATA 3, it seems that drives will be made as PCI-e cards.
This could be the end of SATA.
Tom's has quite a few interesting articles, I still have 2 computers with the previous version of Sata and pci e used with SSD's has been around for a while. Right now the main difference is the boot time which is nice.
The article reinforces the thought that a larger SSD will be faster and the life should be increased.
Carl2
I just had to put this in, I just installed Hal, I let it install on the C (SSD) drive. Same computer with a SSD, I don't have to wait for Hal to get going, it pops right up on the screen, Same with the brain editor, it pops open. I think I'll put Dragon on the C drive with it.
Carl2
Good to know Hal runs quicker on an SSD.
I agree, think I would put Dragon on the SSD too, It's got to help speed it up some.
I installed Dragon this morning and I did a little training and to let it read a few documents which I had me in the past. The signal-to-noise ratio is 31 DB which is exceptionally high. I really think I should have included more documents for Dragon to read, I would say I usually have better accuracy after a new install. Probably the easiest solution would be to just let it read about 10 more documents. I could also try adjusting the microphone input level.
I really don't see any increase in speed, I have just restarted Dragon and I would say the load time is approximately the same as it had been in the past. Also I have noticed that during the installation of Ultra Hal and Dragon that no icon had been put on the desktop. I guess I'll just be thankful that both installations were successful and the software works.
Carl 2
Was looking for some light bulbs on Amazon and noticed the OCZ Agility 3 120GB SSD is close to £100, having dropped by £25 since I got mine last December.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/OCZ-AGT3-25SAT3-120G-Agility-120GB-SATA/dp/B004Z0S6SO/ (http://www.amazon.co.uk/OCZ-AGT3-25SAT3-120G-Agility-120GB-SATA/dp/B004Z0S6SO/)
That's certainly a better price, but more than I'm willing to spend for a drive that's only half the size I'd like to have. When they start offering 250GB drives for, say, £150.00GBP, then I'll be sorely tempted. Till then, I'll save my pennies. :)
I agree Dave.
I want a 240/250 GB drive but want to pay 50p per GB, or approaching that price.
Still waiting.
Don't know if anyone else is tempted, but I tucked in and got one :
http://www.ebuyer.com/268244-ocz-120gb-agility-3-ssd-agt3-25sat3-120g-agt3-25sat3-120g (http://www.ebuyer.com/268244-ocz-120gb-agility-3-ssd-agt3-25sat3-120g-agt3-25sat3-120g)
£95.00
About 80p/GB
I was looking on ebuyer at them two days ago, they were £99 then, they sure are coming down in price.
Did you order the bracket too?
Yeah I ordered a bracket :thumbsup:
I've been saving since January for one and was just waiting for them to go under £100 - and for that I got the bracket too, so not bad.
Sounds good :thumbsup:, about £35 less than I paid :'(
You shouldn't need to flash the firmware on that drive either, it will have the stable version already installed.
Think you will be extremely happy with it :banana:
I hope so, read so many good things about it and of course your own comments. Will be printing off that topic you made when it arrives.
Looking forward to tying it out :D
Nice choice there Freddy, your computer is going to love you :D
A tip I read recently, if you ever have to reformat the drive, use windows 7.
I don't know exactly how to explain the reason why, but it has to do with lining up the data blocks, and I read somewhere that xp does not line up the blocks. Sorry can't remember if vista does line them up or not.
Agreed Syber I've read the same thing about data lining up, some people have reformatted the drive in Windows 7 and got better speeds out of it, there is a nack to getting the most out of them.
Yes Freddy print that page out but like I said I don't think you need to do the firmware update bit, I would make a partition on the drive in your Windows 7 that you are running now though, but first turn on AHCI in the bios and do the driver installation bit. (That is for the data line up reason that Syber mentioned it also gives you a chance to see if AHCI works ok on your system before you commit to installing windows)
I made a 40 Gig partition for windows and I'm doing ok for space but you might want to make it a bit bigger, I guess a good way to know how much space you need on C drive is to see how much space you are using now, then add a few GIG more just in case or something like that.
OK I get the idea, but am a little confused.
So first I install the SSD in my system and format it using W7 ? And also to see if AHCI works.
(Then I could check the firmware too presumably ?)
Then if all is good I remove it and follow the instructions in Data's other post (except for firmware) for my new install ?
Why do I need to make a partition on my current W7 Disk too ? I don't get that bit sorry.
My W7 drive is full of junk but I thought I might go for a 50G for windows. Everything like documents and pictures will go on my old HD. Only things I need to be fast will go on the SSD.
In a nutshell Freddy :)
Connect the SSD to your PC as it is now, then boot into windows.
Do the "turning on AHCI" bit, first in windows then in the BIOS, then boot back in to windows and let the AHCI drivers install, then reboot.
Now check for firmware updates and install if needed.
Now partition the SSD in the Windows 7 disk manager but I wouldn't format it yet.
Then shut down the PC and disconnect the old HDD (for now)
Connect the SSD to the first SATA connector on the mobo ( Normally SATA 0 but it might be SATA 1 ).
Install Windows onto the SSD to your new 50 GIG partition and let windows format the partition during installation.
Connect the old HDD to a higher number SATA port once windows is installed and up-dated.
Thats about it.
Cool thanks, that I understand :thumbsup:
Yeah that's a bit easier to understand :)
One question:
Do you have any IDE drives on the ribbon cable connected to your rig?
No I removed all IDE drives when I got that new graphics card. It's all SATA in there now - atm 1 HDD and 1 DVD-RW.
That's good then, I only asked because AHCI and IDE drives don't mix to well.
I shall be doing this soon with my flatmates rig.
Do you know of issues with IDE DVD drives when AHCI is on? Or is it just IDE HDDs?
You sometimes have to run the AHCI in compatibility mode to get the IDE to work right, also having any IDE drive, be it DVD, HDD or whatever will slow the boot down.
I would get a SATA DVD drive for about £15 with the SSD and go SATA all the way.
Saying that you will be able to get it to work with an IDE drive if he doesn't want to splash out any cash on a new DVD.
Freddy, when will your SSD arrive?
I'm not sure - I went for the free delivery option.
BTW, Amazon have pretty much matched that price today..
I find ebuyer normally takes 2 to 3 working days for the free delivery, it might turn up today I'm thinking, they sometimes come in the afternoon for me.
Fingers crossed.
Not sure why but I'm excited for you ;D
It is pretty exciting, always brightens things up when a new toy is on the way :)
I'm looking forward to getting rid of all the junk I have installed on this too, fresh start.
So has it turned up yet Freddy, I mean it should be with you by now :scratch-head:
Yeah it turned up today :D
I'm not going to install it till Sunday though as I have some gaming lined up for Saturday and it will take me a while to get it all done.
Exciting stuff :)
congrats on getting the ssd in today.
Thanks Syber :)
Quick question - when my PC is idle I have a feeling it is de-fragmenting drives - is that the case ?
And SSDs should not be defragmented - so how can I turn that off ?
Or am I completely wrong ?
More likely, it's Windows Search indexing the drive. Win 7 detects whether a drive is an SSD, and more or less "refuses" to defrag them unless you do so manually. So I wouldn't worry too much about it at this point. :)
I have search indexing turned off on my SSD, no real point in having it on just for the OS drive and games drive.
Right click properties on the drive in windows explorer, the setting is in there.
Hello Mr PC Doctor.
I am getting there, the worst part so far was building the SSD braces, soooo fiddly, I had to attach the braces to the SSD before putting it in the machine. Why don't they magnetise all screws grrr !
Anyway, the SSD is in there, and Windows Device manager can see it.
I made a restore point too.
In my BIOS, under "Storage Config" I see that at the moment it is set to IDE. So assuming I am looking in the right place, later on I will have to change that to AHCI. So now I have to do the Windows regedit thing first.
That's where I am. But I have a question. How can I find out what version of Firmware the SSD has ?
Looking at the link for Firmware, I see that currently : *CURRENT FIRMWARE RELEASE is v2.22 btw...
Cheers :)
Quote from: Freddy on April 30, 2012, 14:35:15 PM
Hello Mr PC Doctor.
I am getting there, the worst part so far was building the SSD braces, soooo fiddly, I had to attach the braces to the SSD before putting it in the machine. Why don't they magnetise all screws grrr !
Anyway, the SSD is in there, and Windows Device manager can see it.
I made a restore point too.
In my BIOS, under "Storage Config" I see that at the moment it is set to IDE. So assuming I am looking in the right place, later on I will have to change that to AHCI. So now I have to do the Windows regedit thing first.
That's where I am. But I have a question. How can I find out what version of Firmware the SSD has ?
Looking at the link for Firmware, I see that currently : *CURRENT FIRMWARE RELEASE is v2.22 btw...
Cheers :)
Yes that's all correct :thumbsup:
Run the OCZToolbox.exe (PC must have AHCI enabled) it will check if the drive version is up to date and then you can up-date if needed.
EDIT:
The OCZToolbox.exe is in the zip when you download the firmware.
Thanks mate 8) Onwards and upwards...
Hmm did regedit, enabled ahci - booted almost then BSOD....will revert to ide...
Sent from my GT-S5830 using Tapatalk 2
OOps
Sounds like AHCI isnt on.
Depending on your BIOS you might find the AHCI setting in SATA configuration,
Where ever it is just set it to "AHCI enabled".
Have another loock in the BIOS.
OK maybe I changed the wrong thing...I will dig around :)
This vid should help:
how to enable AHCI in bios (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bn0XTsIXQiA#)
Well I don't know what I did wrong the first time, but I tried the same thing again and it worked I think. I noticed that when I looked in Regedit, the value was back to 3, so I must have messed up.
It booted this time and installed the AHCI drivers and machine is back to life :)
Need a smoke, then I will see about this Firmware !
You had me worried there, feww, :)
Should see the AHCI in device manger now.
[attachment deleted by admin]
Yeah got that too now :)
[attachment deleted by admin]
Firmware upgraded too now and yes I was feeling nervous too lol
OK now in windows I have to make the partitions..
OK lost now...how do I create my partitions please ? It's not coming up in drives yet, but like I said it is in devices... ::)
Right click my computer, Manage, Disk Management.
Don't worry about it too much now but you have what looks like the wrong driver in for the AHCI in your attached image, It shouldn't really say standard, the driver should know exactly what it is.
Will have another look at that once you have windows installed on to the SSD.
Cool do I just accept whatever windows defaults to ?
It's giving me the option now of MBR or GPT...
MBR is what it has defaulted to as an option.
Yes use MBR.
OK thanks. Sorry to keep bothering you :o
I guess the word 'partition' is the same as 'volume' ?
So what I do here is right click the 'Unallocated' space and choose 'New Simple Volume' and make a 50GB partition for W7 ?
Then do I make a second partition with the remaining space for all the games and stuff ?
Hmm...how much you charging me per question again ? :D
You are going to pay me for this? LoL, you might feel like you need paying when it's all done :D
Just make the one volume for windows, don't format it, and do the other once windows is installed onto the SSD.
:LOL: I enjoy it apart from the parts where my heart is in my mouth..
OK partition made, not formatted...
On to next step...disconnect drives except SSD and DVD...and then install Windaz.
Cya soon !
Good luck, see you in about 20 minutes :)
Well now this seems to have worked...
Currently updating windows atm...
And it seems very fast :)
Sent from my GT-S5830 using Tapatalk 2
Good good
Yeah, I bet service pack 1 is in there too, I always turn system restore off during the first lot of up-dates, It makes restore points of some of them, that can take up space for no reason.
Of course I turn it back on once it's all done, including drivers.
You can delete all the pre service pack files once service pack 1 is installed, there would be no reason to revert to pre SP1 and it will get back quite a lot of space.
That can be found in the disk clean up utility by right clicking on the drive.
While you are there turn off "Allow files on this drive have contents indexed" that will give you more space and look after the SSD better.
OK I think I updated everything, service packs, updates, chipset, graphics...
Using disk cleanup it only saves about 80Mb, but maybe I have missed something - I don't see where to remove the pre service pack files...
Anyway I think I must have got something right, here's my WEI now...
Windows is taking up about 24GB at the moment.
[attachment deleted by admin]
Looks good :thumbsup: yeah happy with that. :D
To clear the pre service pack files, run the disk clean up and put a tick in "Service Pack Backup Files".
I was expecting a score of 7.7, I think if you had the PC clocked up a bit like me you could get it to 7.8, and I think that is down to the CPU speed mostly, I've noticed when you copy large amounts of data to and from the SSD it can use a lot of CPU.
But don't clock your PC like me :P, its ok I know you wont :)
7.7 is good, I would say its lined up right and working in AHCI.
I bet it boots quick, but have you noticed how fast it shuts down, all ways gets me just how fast they shut down with an SSD.
So its make a the new volume with the remaining SSD, windows will probably give it E: drive as its letter, you might want to change the DVD drive to a higher letter and then make the new SSD volume D: drive. You can do all that in the Disk manager.
Once you connect up the HDD you might have to change drive letters around to suit your needs, I would do all that before you start installing your programs.
Yeah I am happy with that, I had a feeling it might be because you overclock. I am pleased :)
I am a step ahead of you, I already connected the HDD as suggested and could access all my storage partition fine, where I had most of the stuff I needed to update like chipset and graphics stuff.
And yep I was confident enought to sort out the second partition on the SSD after doing it once.
I tidied up a bit and now I think Windows and a few other things is about 23GB...
I'll probably just leave the drive names and stuff as they are. It was a really good idea of yours to put my OS on a partition on the old SSD. At least I have the peace of mind now in that if it goes pear-shaped, I can still boot up from the old HDD. SO I will leave all that on there for now, the drive is massive anyway.
I should mention I also put IE9 on the SSD, Windows Live Mail and Security Essentials. Actually IE9 seems pretty good and is really quick, I think I will give it a try for a few days. I was able to inport all my bookmarks that I had the forethought to extract from Chrome. And it looks like IE9 is shaking hands with MSE so it might just be best to go with the flow maybe. Successfully imported all my email and that's all up and runnning again now.
It does boot a lot quicker and shut down is very quick too you are right. Genreally the whole thing is a lot faster !
There were a lot of updates, I still say the hardest thing was getting the blooming brackets on the thing in the first place ! LOL.
Time for a coffee and a smoke me thinks :)
And thanks for your valuable assitance :D
You are more than welcome Freddy and I'm like Dave, I like helping people out :)
Sounds to me like you have it just where you want it :thumbsup:
But what is this, Freddy and IE9? Steady now, have a sit down and think for a while :LOL:
Haha, well they copied the best bits from Chrome didn't they :P
Quote from: Freddy on April 30, 2012, 21:02:21 PM
Haha, well they copied the best bits from Chrome didn't they :P
Good point :LOL:
IE9 is quick in 32bit but it's even quicker when you run the 64 bit version, type explorer in the start menu, it brings up the 64 bit IE9.
Some times the odd site doesn't run quite right in the 64, so I have a short cut to both, just in case.
Yeah I have the 64 bit running at the moment, it's just about as quick as Chrome.
Thanks for the tip re 32 bit version :thumbsup:
glad you got the ssd up and running smoothly, enjoy the speed, don't get speeding ticket lol ;D
Thanks you, yes it is so quick now 8)
I knew you would love it Freddy :-*
I paid £125 for mine, even though they have dropped in price to £90 I still feel it was worth what I paid, I can't think of anything that you could get for that kind of money that would improve your PC as much as an SSD.
Good choice :thumbsup:
Yeah I love it, was up till 4pm playing with stuff, it's like a new machine.
Even if I upgraded the MB and CPU I don't think it would have such an impact due to the reliance on drives.
Money well spent I agree 8)
QuoteMoney well spent I agree Cool
I'll third that notion
I spent around $240us on my drive when it first came out and it is only 40GB. I still feel it was money well spent. I had it for a while now, maybe I will get a bigger one one day :scratch-head:
http://www.ebuyer.com/268244-ocz-120gb-agility-3-ssd-agt3-25sat3-120g-agt3-25sat3-120g (http://www.ebuyer.com/268244-ocz-120gb-agility-3-ssd-agt3-25sat3-120g-agt3-25sat3-120g)
As of this post the price has gone to £82.99
Steady, at this rate Snowy will be getting one next. :rofl:
I say go for it! Best ~80 quid you can spend, I think. :P
Just saw 256 Gb drives going for $239, Again I'm making a mess out of my drives and should do some clean up. The prices are real nice but I already spent that money and it's time to try to do a little saving. With sata 3 I need a new motherboard, mem, graphics ect to get the best performance out of them.
Carl2
As a rule the SATA 3 drives are quicker on SATA 2 motherboards than SATA 2 SSD.s, I'm getting a WEI of 7.8 out of a SATA 3 SSD on a SATA 2 mobo.
Good that the prices are still coming down :)
Just came across this, SSD prices are falling, LINK
http://news.softpedia.com/news/SSD-Prices-Fall-Just-as-Predicted-OCZ-Petrol-Already-at-0-5-EUR-per-GB-273190.shtml (http://news.softpedia.com/news/SSD-Prices-Fall-Just-as-Predicted-OCZ-Petrol-Already-at-0-5-EUR-per-GB-273190.shtml)
Still good news although most people already have one, Maybe the manufactures will put them into computers some day.
Carl2
Most laptops have the option of an SSD these days. Still bumps the price of a laptop by £100 or so. Not seeing the price drop of SSDs yet.
Much as I would love to upgrade to an SSD, on my rig it's a pain the derriere.
My mobo is designed for a single width graphics card, so with my double width card it obscures 2 X SATA plugs. Meaning I have no spare places to plug any more drives in. I'm also having problems with my DVD (IDE) drive. It is failing and being temperamental.
My options are:- modify the graphics card so the plugs will fit or replace all my drives (lose 3 HDD, add 1 HDD + 1 SSD + 1 DVD) or replace mobo (inc processor and memory, basically a new machine).
I'm still looking at the cheap option of modifing the graphics card. It's all very close. I think I can remove some plastic and have enough room to the heat pipes with a right angle SATA lead.
As usual, life is never easy and the devil is in the details.
I've got two desktops, put SSD's in both, really like the difference. I just looked at an ad from HP for a desktop and it lets you switch to a 160 Gb SSD for $300. Newegg has some computers but they are sold without options and all but the most expensive will not have SSD's. I'm limited to Sata 2 because of the mb right now and don't want to get into the change mb, memory and why not the CPU and the graphics card. I'd rather wait and see the price drop for another computer when Win 8 comes out.
Carl2
I see OCZ have released a cheaper range of SSD, the specs look good just a little slower than the Agility range but I doubt it would be noticeable in Windows, looks pretty good to me for the money.
The next build I do will probably have one of them in it.
http://www.ebuyer.com/278646-ocz-120gb-solid-ssd-sld3-25sat3-120g (http://www.ebuyer.com/278646-ocz-120gb-solid-ssd-sld3-25sat3-120g)
This one just came to me in an email too, haven't looked at it really, but thought I would drop it in :
http://www.saverstore.com/product/20330749/OCZ-Vertex-Plus-Series---Solid-state-drive---240-GB---internal---25---SATA-300---buffer (http://www.saverstore.com/product/20330749/OCZ-Vertex-Plus-Series---Solid-state-drive---240-GB---internal---25---SATA-300---buffer)
ooo. 240Gb for £100. Looking good. I really must bite the bullet, it's made it to the price I'd said I'd buy one (50p/GB)
Quote from: Freddy on October 04, 2012, 14:21:25 PM
This one just came to me in an email too, haven't looked at it really, but thought I would drop it in :
http://www.saverstore.com/product/20330749/OCZ-Vertex-Plus-Series---Solid-state-drive---240-GB---internal---25---SATA-300---buffer (http://www.saverstore.com/product/20330749/OCZ-Vertex-Plus-Series---Solid-state-drive---240-GB---internal---25---SATA-300---buffer)
The drive that Freddy posted is a SATA 2 drive at 255MBs read and write, if you want to take the drive to your next PC build you probably would be better getting a SATA 3 version.
It's a nice drive though 8)
Quote from: Snowcrash on October 04, 2012, 17:58:00 PM
ooo. 240Gb for £100. Looking good. I really must bite the bullet, it's made it to the price I'd said I'd buy one (50p/GB)
Snowy, I know you have a problem with the SATA ports on your motherboard being blocked by the graphics card, after doing a bit of hunting around it seems like it's quite a common problem.
Now I know you like messing with leads and things, this guy has a way of modding the lead, looks like it might work.
How to make SATA cable with smaller plugs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9d-_hMvu2A#)
I didn't notice the SATA 2 thing well spotted. I can't sit at the computer very long, I just scanned it.
But I did notice the one I got is about 50p/GB now, so might be worth a look too. WE've seen it before, but here it is again. Amazon and eBuyer seem to have driven the price down...
http://www.amazon.co.uk/OCZ-AGT3-25SAT3-120G-Agility-120GB-SATA/dp/B004Z0S6SO/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pdT1_nS_nC?ie=UTF8&colid=O3LJM63KH1I0&coliid=I1W8UMKAF6GPFH (http://www.amazon.co.uk/OCZ-AGT3-25SAT3-120G-Agility-120GB-SATA/dp/B004Z0S6SO/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pdT1_nS_nC?ie=UTF8&colid=O3LJM63KH1I0&coliid=I1W8UMKAF6GPFH)
http://www.ebuyer.com/268244-ocz-120gb-agility-3-ssd-agt3-25sat3-120g (http://www.ebuyer.com/268244-ocz-120gb-agility-3-ssd-agt3-25sat3-120g)
Quote from: Data on October 05, 2012, 14:00:15 PM
Snowy, I know you have a problem with the SATA ports on your motherboard being blocked by the graphics card, after doing a bit of hunting around it seems like it's quite a common problem.
Now I know you like messing with leads and things, this guy has a way of modding the lead, looks like it might work.
I like it. It wont have the locking tab but what the heck. Good idea to insulate/strengthen with epoxy glue.
Thanks for that.
I thought you would like that Snowy. :)
Freddy I wasn't having a go at you in any way about the SATA II drive, Just wanted to point it out before Snowy jumped in there, just in case.
And another one I got in some email today :
http://www.ebuyer.com/387080-sandisk-128gb-ssd-sdssdp-128g-g25?utm_source=b2c_11-10-2012&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=b2c_thursday (http://www.ebuyer.com/387080-sandisk-128gb-ssd-sdssdp-128g-g25?utm_source=b2c_11-10-2012&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=b2c_thursday)
Good price there, but a little slow on Write speed at 380MB/s for SATA III.
OCZ seem better value for money.
Data, do you think it's worth getting another OCZ like the ones we have ?
I see these : OCZ 240GB Agility 3 SSD - REFURBISHED (http://www.ebuyer.com/455032-ocz-240gb-agility-3-ssd-agt3-25sat3-240g-rf?utm_source=google&utm_medium=products&gclid=CJ3M5YLdmrcCFa7KtAodLj4A7g)
I'm running out of space and I just cannot be bothered to do a fresh install to rearrange things. Especially so since everything is working well. So I thought I would get another SSD and increase the OS partition.
Which brings me to this...how does one increase the partition size using that Easeus partition manager please ?
Nevermind, figured out the resize. I didn't realise I had to drag the unpartitioned space to the front of the partition so that the OS partition could use it ;D
Actually I may be able to answer my own question again, these appear to be the newer models :
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B007ZWVCOY (http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B007ZWVCOY)
:scratch-head:
I'm not too sure about the Agility 4, Snowy did a build with one and it scored lower than the Agility 3 in a WEI, It could have just been one of them things and maybe it wouldn't be the same result for you but I thought I would warn you.
I know this too, the read and Write speeds on the 4 are a lot lower than the 3
Check it out:
http://www.ebuyer.com/search?q=ocz+ssd (http://www.ebuyer.com/search?q=ocz+ssd)
Oh yeah I see what you mean - I'll get another agility 3 then, this one I have has been good. Cheers :thumbsup:
If you can find a good price then this is the drive to get, it is quicker than the Agility 3 but cost a bit more.
If I was to buy another SSD today I would try for one of these or if not then get another Agility 3.
http://www.ebuyer.com/353111-ocz-128gb-vertex-4-ssd-vtx4-25sat3-128g (http://www.ebuyer.com/353111-ocz-128gb-vertex-4-ssd-vtx4-25sat3-128g)
Looks alright, but twice the price, thanks but I will stick to the Agility 3 :thumbsup:
I know you passed on the vertex4 but I can say they are faster than my old intel ssd and is holding up really well. Dave also has a couple of them but I believe his are the 256gb ones where mine is only 128gb.
Sorry I can't compare performance or reliability to the Agility 3
Thanks Syber. Well I have one already and it works fine, so I think I will pick up another one soon.
I think I am going to stick to the Agility 3 again, but might go for the 240GB one this time as the £/Gb is better. Dunno about these refurbished ones I keep seeing. Scan has them on a 1 year warranty, worth paying for do we think ?
http://www.scan.co.uk/products/240gb-ocz-agility-3-25-ssd-read-525mb-s-write-500mb-s-refurbished (http://www.scan.co.uk/products/240gb-ocz-agility-3-25-ssd-read-525mb-s-write-500mb-s-refurbished)
What's the verdict on those ?
Depends on whether they're factory refurbished, or done by a 3rd party. Beware the3rd party refurbs.
Makes me wonder, though, what there is in an SSD to actually refurbish...
Those ones I linked to are factory refurbished. I'm trying to find the warranty on a brand new one, looks to me like it might be 1 year too...
This article shows what they have inside Dave : http://www.anandtech.com/show/4346/ocz-agility-3-240gb-review (http://www.anandtech.com/show/4346/ocz-agility-3-240gb-review)
OCZ drives seem to be a bit thin on the ground at the moment, I see amazon have some:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/OCZ-AGT3-25SAT3-240G-Agility-240GB-SATA/dp/B004Z0S6S4/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1372540190&sr=8-3&keywords=ocz+ssd (http://www.amazon.co.uk/OCZ-AGT3-25SAT3-240G-Agility-240GB-SATA/dp/B004Z0S6S4/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1372540190&sr=8-3&keywords=ocz+ssd)
Not sure if I would go for the refurb, and when I have doubt I tend to err on the side of caution.
Yes, the best price new is on Amazon I think so far in my travels. I tend to be wary of the refurbished ones too, you might get lucky and get a new one but at the same time you could get one with problems.
Been doing a bit of research on SSD's, seeing as the OCZ drives are very thin on the ground I have found what looks like a good replacement, faster speed than the Agility 3, good specs, reviews and price.
http://www.ebuyer.com/370161-sandisk-240gb-extreme-ssd-sdssdx-240g-g25 (http://www.ebuyer.com/370161-sandisk-240gb-extreme-ssd-sdssdx-240g-g25)
Looks grand :thumbsup: I looked at the Samsung ones you mentioned the other day too, but these seem better. I think they are cheaper too.
This looks like a good buy at the moment :
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00E391OX6/ref=s9_simh_gw_p147_d0_i1?pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_s=center-5&pf_rd_r=0GWG11S48WYANJ8AE1EW&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=455345507&pf_rd_i=468294 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00E391OX6/ref=s9_simh_gw_p147_d0_i1?pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_s=center-5&pf_rd_r=0GWG11S48WYANJ8AE1EW&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=455345507&pf_rd_i=468294)
Sequential Read: Max. 540 MB/s
Sequential Write: Max. 520 MB/s
I remembered reading about Samsung drive failures a bit back, I did a quick search and came across this article. http://www.anandtech.com/show/6483/update-on-samsung-ssd-840840-pro-failures (http://www.anandtech.com/show/6483/update-on-samsung-ssd-840840-pro-failures)
article says they fixed the problem, but I would do more research just to be safe
Having never used them drives I wouldn't like to say for sure, I can say that these are good.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Kingston-Technology-240GB-Solid-2-5-inch/dp/B00A1ZTZNM/ (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Kingston-Technology-240GB-Solid-2-5-inch/dp/B00A1ZTZNM/)
I took a look Syber, thanks. It appears that problem was with an older different drive.
The reviews on Amazon are overwhelmingly positive for that one I linked to. Also they are positive over on eBuyer :
http://www.ebuyer.com/539153-samsung-250gb-ssd-840-evo-ssd-only-mz-7te250bw?utm_source=google&utm_medium=products&gclid=CJT96Ib7kr0CFSUUwwodRkIAWw (http://www.ebuyer.com/539153-samsung-250gb-ssd-840-evo-ssd-only-mz-7te250bw?utm_source=google&utm_medium=products&gclid=CJT96Ib7kr0CFSUUwwodRkIAWw)
One for the wish list, for me anyway.
So the article was correct then cool beans, for that is a decent price :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Some new comers to the scene :
http://hexus.net/tech/news/storage/67505-crucial-micron-launch-faster-efficient-m550-ssd-range/ (http://hexus.net/tech/news/storage/67505-crucial-micron-launch-faster-efficient-m550-ssd-range/)
I'm not sure about these Crucial ones...
http://www.dabs.com/products/crucial-128gb-m550-sata-6gb-s-2-5--7mm-solid-state-drive-99QY.html?src=3 (http://www.dabs.com/products/crucial-128gb-m550-sata-6gb-s-2-5--7mm-solid-state-drive-99QY.html?src=3)
Sequential Read: 550 MB/s
Sequential Write: 350 MB/s
4KB Random Read: 90,000 IOPS
4KB Random Write: 75,000 IOPS
Seems the write speed is slower than most. Think I will stick with the Samsung for now.
Done a few of the Kingston ones now, bang for buck they seem good and feel snappy.
Been looking for some benchmark tests, found this but no Kingston drives on the list.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/ssd-recommendation-benchmark,3269-6.html (http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/ssd-recommendation-benchmark,3269-6.html)
I just looked at Newegg, http://www.newegg.com/Internal-SSDs/SubCategory/ID-636 (http://www.newegg.com/Internal-SSDs/SubCategory/ID-636)
Prices are much more reasonable and they are making much larger drives. I also use Toms Harware but think they have the ssd's down pretty good by now. Intel would be my favorite but and seems to be more price competive but I'd go with another name brand if the price was right.
Carl2
Thinking of getting one of these to put my games on. Seems like a good price for what you get. Didn't Snowy get one of these ?
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00E391OX6/ref=s9_simh_gw_p147_d0_i1?pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_s=center-3&pf_rd_r=16B1YEQ38CXWSYB0T8DX&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=455333147&pf_rd_i=468294 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00E391OX6/ref=s9_simh_gw_p147_d0_i1?pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_s=center-3&pf_rd_r=16B1YEQ38CXWSYB0T8DX&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=455333147&pf_rd_i=468294)
Looks like a good buy and I think they are among the quickest.
Think Snowy got the Kingston in the end.
I saw a really good price for a SSD, probably at Newegg, think it was a cyber Monday deal, about 400 GB for around $179, reviews said it wasn't one of the fastest drives but it offers plenty of storage and has got to be much faster than the standard hd. Seems like it would be great for a laptop.
Carl2
Not looked at prices for a while but the 480GB price point is starting to look good.
http://www.ebuyer.com/581256-kingston-ssdnow-v300-480gb-sata3-2-5inch-ssd-sv300s37a-480g (http://www.ebuyer.com/581256-kingston-ssdnow-v300-480gb-sata3-2-5inch-ssd-sv300s37a-480g)
£160 at time of post.
Yeah looking good, fast approaching sensible money for the bigger drives.
Very good prices, just saw a Samsung 500 Gb for 229, Mushkin 240 Gb for 104, meanwhile just about all computers sold are using the standard HD. I did find 1 page of gaming computers where they are sold with a large standard HD plus a 120 Gb SSD.
I know from experience the HP win8.1 OS would not work with an HP SSD because of size and I had to order a MS Win 8.1 OS. Must be like replacing the gas engine in a car.
Carl2
I'm thinking of dropping HDD entirely apart from in my NAS drive. Mainly because of the lag it causes waiting for the HHD to spin up to speed. It's a little thing, but it's getting annoying. I mainly use my internal HDD for storage and downloads. I could partition off a bit of space on my second SSD for that and just put the stuff I want to keep on the NAS drive.
Spent the afternoon clearing up my HDD and moving things over to the NAS. Tomorrow it's coming out of there.
I think any doubts we had about the lifespan of SSD's have been kicked into touch. None of our members have had any failures, none of my customers have either, the technology is proven in my books.
Quote from: Freddy on December 10, 2014, 14:49:05 PM
I'm thinking of dropping HDD entirely apart from in my NAS drive. Mainly because of the lag it causes waiting for the HHD to spin up to speed.
I agree with that, it is the worst thing about having an SSD and an HDD, my internal HDD will have to go at some point.
I have to agree with that, but for me it won't happen for a while yet. With current drive space nearing 5TB (and almost 40% of that currently in use, with more being added every week, it seems), having a system that consists of only SSD drives is a very pricey proposition.
I just got up this morning to find that my newest Virtual Machine (Mac OSX) has completely filled one of my SSD's to capacity, and since I've always got at least one VM running all the time, this is a bit of a problem. That particular SSD is only 120GB in size, and I don't want to hassle with playing "musical drives" to get more free space, so I'm looking at picking up one of these (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820173011). Only 23 reviews, but the vast majority are top ratings. I already use a number of SanDisk products (mostly SD cards) and my experience is that they make quality products. Plus, the price for the size is pretty decent. :)
Very good price, looks nice. I wondered about the SanDisks too, but I have a lot of space left, even more now that I moved a lot of stuff to my NAS.
I removed my final HDD from my main PC today. So long and thanks for all the fish.
I've used a lower spec SanDisk SSD for a customer, it worked fine, still is, but it was a little slower than I expected, however that one you linked to Dave is around 500MB/S both Read and Write. Looks good to me :)
I looked at the specs pretty closely, and was mildly surprised that they were a lot better than a similarly sized OCZ drive, while also being about $50USD less expensive, and with a higher customer rating to boot! My only real concern is that I really can't afford to spend another hundred dollars when I have no real income at the moment. I really need to find a job. :(
Quote from: Data on December 10, 2014, 18:42:03 PM
I think any doubts we had about the lifespan of SSD's have been kicked into touch. None of our members have had any failures, none of my customers have either, the technology is proven in my books.
I think I might have a problem with mine Houston.
A few times now when I have started Windows I'm getting a problem. It runs check disk before booting into the desktop. This is not on my OS drive but on the newer Samsung drive with games and a few other things on it.
Check Disc runs and does a few things. It told me a few times it found corrupted files. About a week ago it did this and it deleted my file I use to store passwords (I had backups). Today it decided to delete my LOTRO exe file, which is just too far !
I don't understand how Windows can just delete files if it feels like it.
Is my SSD failing ?
First backup everything on the SSD then turn off the PC and disconnect the SATA leads from the SSD and mobo, give the leads and sockets a little clean out to make sure it's not a dust or dirt problem. then see how it goes for a while.
I'll backup the important stuff then. I'll leave just the games on there for now.
LOTRO won't run now of course, so that probably needs reinstalling. Need to check when I bought it, think it was in July. Will still be under warranty. I can't see any dust getting in there, it's in a very sheltered spot behind the CPU.
I've had HDD's that were glitchy because of a bad SATA connection, it is possible that something got into the connections mate or maybe a lead isn't properly seated, it's worth a look I say.
OK I'll move a few things to my main drive.
I guess the LOTRO file is totally lost now then ?
If you have another SATA lead to hand try that too.
Yes the LOTRO.exe is probably lost :(
But, If the game is on Steam you could just verify it and Steam should replace any missing files.
There's not enough space to move the entire game library to C. I'll leave the games on there for now. I'm moving important stuff like my XAMMP install.
It's at times like this when a good old external HDD can come in handy.
I don't know if Samsung do some kind of SSD checking tool but if they do...
Well I have the NAS, I still had some stuff to backup on there. I wasn't bothering with games as they can easily be replaced. It's things like programming projects and web work that I really need to secure.
If the SSD is screwed it would probably be best to do fresh installs of the games anyway.
As long as you have the important stuff backed up :thumbsup:
If it is the SSD then you are quite lucky it didn't fail completely, it could be worse :)
I have a lot of backups :D I backup to my NAS and I also use Windows OneDrive. Like I said it's mostly my programming stuff that I keep safe. Like the AIML interpreter, that took me months so I would want to lose that.
I've got Acronis doing other backups too.
I think it's broken. It keeps freezing now too. Going to shut down and check connections as suggested.
Checked for dust, none. Pulled out leads and put back in again. Used another SATA cable that was working for my HDD.
Booted and windows went into Check Disk again, promptly deleting more stuff. How can they let it blindly delete stuff :headbang:
Think I will get it replaced.
Oh well, you have done all you can do, sounds like the SSD is on it's way out. :(
You could try a firmware up-date for the SSD apart from that I don't think there is much you can do other than RMA.
Well it was running since the end of May with the same firmware, so I will contact Amazon to get it replaced. Thanks for your help :)
Amazon are refunding me in full. Just need to send it back to them.
I think I will pull the other identical Samsung from my Linux box and use that instead. Which means I could use my old HDD for Linux instead.
So that's £90.00 back in my pocket. No questions asked.
I just found corrupted files in the stuff I copied over, I think it's safe to say it's a gonna.
It is a shame that the first SSD to fail for us lot was the Samsung and it's not even that old, I was thinking of getting one for the high speed but now I honestly don't think I will.
I'll give this other one a try, I might just have got a dodgy one. Most people seem okay with them, thought there are odd reports of failures. To be expected I suppose, tech is never fool proof, just look at HDD, they only live so long. But yeah a lifespan of just over six months...would have hoped for better.
Tried to format it to wipe it and it completely died. So I pulled it out and have sent it back. Interestingly Windows is booting quicker now. It had slowed down a bit, but I had put that down to having installed a lot of stuff. Seems not.
Think I will use SSD in my Linux box after all. So I'll pull the 240GB one out and was thinking of popping one of these 60GB SSD's in.
Have not seen them before but they are fast and reviews are good...
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Corsair-CSSD-F60GBLS-Series-Phison-Toggle/dp/B00EENQ0U8 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Corsair-CSSD-F60GBLS-Series-Phison-Toggle/dp/B00EENQ0U8)
Looks worth a shot, especially for the money, good make and should be easily big enough for a Linux install.
lol I remember picking up a 60GB SSD for my XP install. Cost me something like $100 at the time. :) Corsair makes some great quality products (my liquid cooling system and PSU are both made by Corsair, and I have yet to have a single problem with them), so I think you'll do well with that drive. :)
Got the floor and 80% of one wall done on the dog house. It's taking far longer than it should, darn it. Those poor pooches are going to have a cold, wet night. :(
Yeah I have a few Corsair things, they are high quality.
I think I went overboard on the SSD for the Linux box first time around. 240GB I am never gong to fill - it's mainly going to be serving my AIML bot Jess. As well as speech. 60GB is plenty. It's really the speed I need more than the capacity. Plus the SSD runs cool and makes no noise - eventually it will be on 24/7 once I start building Jess on there.
I might put a few other things on there, but probably no big applications or games.
That's ordered. I used the datahopa link to Amazon :)
Well done, and thanks 8)
Got the drive today, noted that it is SATA 3 too.
Got around to installing it today, seems fast again. Found the one in it before was 120GB not 240GB afterall, but it will do for my games.
I have some news of another SSD fail, an OCZ Agility 3 has just died in a customers PC, I haven't gone digging in to my paperwork but I think it lasted about 3 years. Replaced it with a Kingston V300 for £40.
That's only 26,000 hours, give or take. Not great (if memory serves, the Agility 3 had a MTBF of 2 million hours?), even if it were an old-school HDD, but not horrible either, all things considered.
It's hard to say for sure but I think the controller failed on the OCZ SSD and not the flash memory because the BIOS refused to even see the drive, it was gone completely.
Well that's not good. :(
I started to ask questions like whether you tried a known good cable in a different slot, but I realized who I was asking, and decided against it. :D
I'm running into the filled disk myself, the computer wants 10 Gb of free space and I have 9 Gb this is on a 120 Gb disk with win 8.1 on it. I just put in a 240 Gb in the computer for the Win 10 download, realized it said update so I'm not sure it will install to another drives Never liked the OCZ SSD's to many need a firmware update first thing, I went with Intel, and all include software to check the drive, I have a 160 Gb SSD from the going way back, still no probs with it.
Carl2
Quote from: Data on January 02, 2015, 13:16:43 PM
It's hard to say for sure but I think the controller failed on the OCZ SSD and not the flash memory because the BIOS refused to even see the drive, it was gone completely.
I encountered a similar situation doing a data recovery on a newly upgraded Mac to the latest version of OSX. Turns out the failure happened after the filesystem had been partitioned. This made the SSD invisible to a standard recovery. Once I realized this, I was able to get into terminal, mount a USB drive from the command line and recover the data. Apparently, the Mac store charges $200 dollars to do a data recovery like this, but to a DVD instead.
SSD benchmarks 2015
Lots of juicy info on the page, if you explore the menu.
http://ssd.userbenchmark.com/Explore/Speed/11 (http://ssd.userbenchmark.com/Explore/Speed/11)
Looks like the Samsungs may be the way to go then.
Quote from: Freddy on August 06, 2015, 13:21:15 PM
Looks like the Samsungs may be the way to go then.
Yes could be, and I read that Samsung have recently dropped their SSD prices.
Yes for the top rated Samsung they had said the price was steep and people would be better off with the 840.
But with today's prices the 850 is the better buy at just over £100 on Amazon.
Part of the article Data posted a link to was a "quick" benchmark utility, where you download a small app and run it, and it tests your system, comparing the results to other computers who have run the same app. Here is the page that showed me my scores:
http://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/327779 (http://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/327779)
Ah good - something to replace WEI - good find :thumbsup:
Mine came out pretty good, my CPU got 99% rank 1 8)
Quote99% is a brilliant Desktop CPU score, it's the business. This CPU demolishes everyday tasks such as web browsing, office apps and audio/video playback. Additionally this processor can handle typical workstation, and even moderate server, workloads.
http://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/327811 (http://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/327811)
Can I say, awesome score there Freddy, them 6 cores are working nice, your graphics score is impressive too. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
I run the "quick" benchmark utility, had to do it twice because I had the graphics card underclocked on the first run. I always have my card underclocked unless something requires more speed (AC Unity springs to mind)
http://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/327810 (http://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/327810)
Thanks, yes pleased with that ;D
Looks like our SSDs are getting on a bit, but I don't think I will put a new one in yet - I don't feel like installing Windows again, although now might be a good time before I fill it up. Hmm, whilst they are older I don't think we would see a huge difference in performance.
Dave on the other hand has some very nice SSDs there.
Data your i5 is holding on well too.
Quote from: Freddy on August 06, 2015, 14:50:01 PM
Data your i5 is holding on well too.
Hehe, yeah it's not doing bad, so far I haven't hit a bottleneck with it in any game engines, for the price and its low power consumption (69w) I think it's nice little CPU, for me :)
A new SSD is on the cards though, if I install W10 or not.
Same here, once I can verify that a dual boot install is possible. Otherwise, the Win10 install will have to wait till I feel comfortable with the whole "tweak it till it behaves" process. For my box, that's a major undertaking. :P :)
Some new toys on the horizon....
QuoteSamsung begins mass production of 256-Gigabit, 3D V-NAND Flash
http://hexus.net/tech/news/storage/85484-samsung-begins-mass-production-256-gigabit-3d-v-nand-flash/ (http://hexus.net/tech/news/storage/85484-samsung-begins-mass-production-256-gigabit-3d-v-nand-flash/)
Faster, more capacity and cheaper.
The future is looking very bright for SSD's 8)
I noticed that TDK are going to launch a range of SSD's, haven't really looked into the specs but I did like the make when then made cassette tapes, they were some of the better ones. Could be a manufacturer to keep an eye on.
http://www.global.tdk.com/news_center/press/20130507535.htm (http://www.global.tdk.com/news_center/press/20130507535.htm)
Hmm! 180MB/s? Thought state of the art was more like 450-600MB/s
I just took a look at the ssd's at newegg, Intel is selling a 480 Gb for 179, since I've always liked the optical drives from Plextor I looked at them also, 256 Gb for 109. Kingston has a 240 Gb for 79. Prices sure have come down. A Kingston 480 Gb for 213, unbelievable that Intel is lower.
Carl2
Snowy, think that TDK link I posted was a bit out of date, my bad.
Carl2
If you are looking for the fastest SSD's then at the moment Samsung leads the pack, I got one for windows 10 and it is pretty quick :thumbsup:
Have a browse through this list.
http://ssd.userbenchmark.com/ (http://ssd.userbenchmark.com/)
Data,
I have to admit they do look good in both speed and price. I had to look at Newegg again and came across a PCI express 3 SSD, the numbers seem unreal and the PCI 3 has a Data Transfer Rate: PCIe 3.0 = 8.0GT/s, Not sure if I understand this so here are some links.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820147425 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820147425)
http://www.trentonsystems.com/applications/pci-express-interface (http://www.trentonsystems.com/applications/pci-express-interface)
Perhaps you could explain it to me
Carl2
I will try to explain them but to be honest I have never used one or worked on a PC that has one.
They can be a lot quicker than normal SATA SSD's because they don't have to send the data down the SATA bus through a cable. They connect directly to the PCIe bus which gets over the SATA bottle neck.
The downside to them is that your motherboard must be fully compatible with the technology, it must have PCI-Express 3.0 and be able to boot from PCI-Express 3.0 as well.
That is about it I think.
Data,
Thanks, I read a few more reviews, one person has said about 5 times as fast as a regular SSD, and most people are saying what motherboards they are using. The Gateway is still using the Sata 1 while the HP has twice the speed, I can see a little difference in the speed but not all that much. The reviews also mention updating bios and I'm pretty sure most are custom built. Reasonable price, motherboards "ASUS X99-A" $260, good reason to build.
Carl2
I think my MB will do that, I think I nearly bought the Asus X99-A, but it was out of stock so got the next one up. Will look tomorrow, but really as far as the disk is concerned I'm happy with the speed. My target is still a new GPU.
I didn't realize Freddy was also a builder although I knew he was interested in the GPU. I'm very satisfied with the startup time of both computers BUT I did learn the computer is not limited by the CPU it is limited by the speed the info can be delivered by the drive and PCI is faster than the Sata. Actually just eliminating the password is probably the most time saving.
I know that if I watch a video downloading from the internet at a slow speed the video will be messed up because the info is not being delivered fast enough. Data is probably better at giving the correct solution though. I'd like to see how much it would cost to do a build.
Carl2
Yeah I build my own now - I think I started back in 2005 around the time I started AiDreams. I think it's the best way, it saves money and it's more satisfying.
QuoteActually just eliminating the password is probably the most time saving.
:LOL: Yep that's probably true !
My boot time is about 14 seconds now - there's a few more things that run at start-up now.
Yes you are right Carl2, removing the password decreases boot time considerably, I've also noticed that win 10 is starting to boot even quicker for me now, it must have settled down.
Been doing a bit of hunting around for mobo's that fully support booting from PCIe and it seems you need an intel 9 series chipset, so you would be looking at either Z97 or X99 chipset mobo.
Mines the Asus X99-S.
Yeah I know Freddy :D
The -S is just something Asus have added for fun, it is basically an X99 chipset.
The board MUST also have what they are calling:
32Gb/s ultrafast M.2 x4 socket on-board.
That is where you plug this thing in to:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820147425 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820147425)
I think your board has it Freddy :thumbsup:
Well I am glad someone remembers what I have :LOL:
Yes it has one of those sockets - I had wondered what that was for, now I know.
So you just buy the SSD and plug it in there ? No other sockets involved - so I can keep my spare GPU slots for the future ?
Yes mate, like this:
(http://www.pcper.com/files/imagecache/article_max_width/review/2014-08-31/15-m.2-bracket-in-board-with-ssd.jpg)
Ah so that's what that bracket was for.
Super cool. Now I'm interested, but that comes second on my list - I'll wait till the price drops, but that's a nice easy upgrade as I have three SSDs in there now and I don't want a cable-fest going on.
Thanks :thumbsup:
Intel is still working on using the PCI express lanes for use with it's SSD's, they are working with Asus and finding new ways to get all the potential from their 750 series drives. Link :
http://promotions.newegg.com/ssd/15-3751/index.html?cm_mmc=BAC-GDR-COOPIntel-_-IntelSSD-_-750-Series-_-NA&nm_mc=ExtBanner&gclid=CPSp8LnElcgCFdUTHwodbqQIwA (http://promotions.newegg.com/ssd/15-3751/index.html?cm_mmc=BAC-GDR-COOPIntel-_-IntelSSD-_-750-Series-_-NA&nm_mc=ExtBanner&gclid=CPSp8LnElcgCFdUTHwodbqQIwA)
somewhat long video but very interesting. The webpage also contains links to some other interesting sites.
Carl2
Some nice info there, thanks Carl2 :)
Data thought you would like that, they doubled the speed of the sata but they still haven't reached the full potential. The M.2 is offering 32 Gb/s but they are still in the process of making changes, raid will not work and will create a bottle neck, funny ages ago people were using SSD's in raid. You have to make sure the drive will boot, make sure you have a direct path to the CPU.
Since they are still making changes I think I'll sit back and wait and see what they come up with. I hope it's not to expensive and something relativity simple to do.
Carl2
If I was to build one today I would go M.2, it offers the best bang for bucks and lower power consumption :)
QuotePerformance-wise Intel's SSD 750 400GB and Samsung's SM951 are fairly even. The benchmarks prove that both drives have their strengths. And under normal desktop workloads at low queue depths, I'd go so far as to call them equal..
http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/intel-750-series-400gb-versus-samsung-sm951-512gb,review-33203.html (http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/intel-750-series-400gb-versus-samsung-sm951-512gb,review-33203.html)
I already have the HP as a spare, since it has 6 GB/s vs the 3 gB/s transfer it is a little quicker. I'm not in any hurry but I'd be pretty disappointed if the newer system was only a little bit faster. At present both computers have a quick boot time and are responsive enough. This compared to the average consumer who is still buying a computer with a standard hard drive.
I'm actually hoping Intel will continue releasing 6 and 8 core Cpu's in the latest series although I don't think it will happen, this is the first time I've seen them offered at reasonable prices.
Carl2
Oh it will be faster I'm sure of that, it's about 5 times the speed of the best SATA SSD's
Don't blink.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slORqSKElRI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slORqSKElRI)
I have to admit it was quick, what did I watch?
Carl2
It's apparently Windows 8.1 on a Plextor M.2 SSD, which isn't as fast as the newer Samsung M.2 drive.
Carl2, copy and paste this URL into your browser.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slORqSKElRI
Looks like it woke up from sleep, I watched a few other vids on SSD's, seems the standard SSD using Sata is being replaced by the M.2 or PCI express.
I just came across this which looks interesting " BIOS for native UEFI bootloader " link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amwujljr7pY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amwujljr7pY)
Carl2
It goes to show that we really don't want to mix older "legacy" hardware with new builds.
This got me thinking - do we really need an internal DVD drive any more ?
I hardly ever use mine, it might be better to get an external USB and just plug it in when needed. :idea:
DVD. probably not. But Blu-Ray, definitely. Unless movies start coming on either SD cards (music already does, here) or flash drives, I don't want to give up my optical drive. :) :P
I meant Blu-Ray / DVD drive really, I don't see the need for an internal, just sits there slowing the boot and taking power, only to be used maybe 5 times year for me :P :)
I'm using Flash drives, I have a SSD for storage and also a standard Drive I can copy to. I haven't used the DVD for anything in years, don't think it's even worth disconnecting and I won't invest in an external if I don't use the existing one. Motors in the DVD would consume most of the power, electronics should be next to nothing.
Anyways the vid was talking about the older legacy drives, thanks.
Carl2
Well I still think it's a good idea, if and when I do a new build with an M.2 SSD I will consider an external DVD / Blu-Ray than plug it in when needed, spinning drives are so last decade. IMHO
Quote from: Carl2 on September 29, 2015, 23:55:24 PM
Anyways the vid was talking about the older legacy drives, thanks.
Yes I know Carl2, I just wonder if it's worth getting an internal DVD / Blu-Ray these days.
A DVD / Blu-Ray on idle can consume about 5 watts (I googled it, the same as leaving the light on in my bathroom all day, every day), you know me, Mr super efficient, every little helps :thumbsup:
So yeah, something like this £20 (at time of posting) drive should be fine for me on my next build with an M.2 SSD.
External Slim BluRay BD ROM (http://www.amazon.co.uk/External-Netbook-Notebook-Desktop-macbook/dp/B00441HOVO/ref=sr_1_10?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1443602020&sr=1-10)
My only issue with using an external optical drive is simply one of desk space. For me, there's a serious real estate issue involved that more or less precludes the use of such an external drive. Considering the size of the case that I use, it's far better for me to simply use an internal drive, instead. That said, however, I can see your point. But I have to wonder what the power requirement comparison is between internal and external drive. If efficiency is your primary goal, you may still be better off with an internal drive; even if you only use it five times a year. :)
I go with Dave, if and when I needed that external drive I probably wouldn't even be able to find it.
Carl2
Quote from: DaveMorton on September 30, 2015, 12:53:51 PM
I have to wonder what the power requirement comparison is between internal and external drive.
I will try to explain one more time :)
An internal drive will sit in the PC using about 5 watts on idle (all the time).
An external drive will live in my computer drawer not plugged in to anything until I need it.
In a perfect world I would also like to minimise the amount of drives plugged in to SATA when I have an M.2 SSD and I certainly don't want any old spinners in there, including HDD's.
From Toms Hardware the measured current when playing an audio cd was 150 ma. 150 x 12V supply is 1.8 W and that is with the motor running to turn the disk. This is from a DVD/CD. the motor is using the majority of that current. I did find this "Optical drives consume just 1.5 to 5 Watts of power during idle, " they are saying during use 25-30 W while in use for a blue ray, I would think they are on the high side since they are trying to find total power needed for a system. 5 W, disconnect all the leds in the computer, trying to be humorous. Next time I open my computer I'll measure it.
Carl2
Well I guess I could easily test it with my power meter but I can't be bothered, basically I hardly ever use my spinning DVD / Bluray drive, it's time to get away from that old technology I think. We should disable unused hardware in the BIOS, old style mouse, keyboard, serial port etc. especially with UEFI bios. Getting an external USB drive will cover me just in case I need one.
It's my choice to make and I like to keep things efficient. :)
EDIT:
It's not just me that thinks this:
http://www.pcworld.com/article/236559/rip_dvd_six_reasons_its_time_for_discs_to_die.html (http://www.pcworld.com/article/236559/rip_dvd_six_reasons_its_time_for_discs_to_die.html)
I've stopped using the printer ages ago, I used to print out all those important documents about this and that and ended up with stacks of paper to be saved in case. I got tired of buying fairly expensive ink only to see it dry out. Haven't used the DVD in years also since flash drives are very reasonable in price. I do remember thinking they are a bit noisy and it seems to take a long time before you see results, kind of like the boot time.
Glad to see you're in the blue ray age I've only got DVD's but since I don't uses them it doesn't matter.
Seems you're the best person to decide what you need.
Carl2
Found this about thermal throttling on the M.2 I was interested in.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/8979/samsung-sm951-512-gb-review/11 (http://www.anandtech.com/show/8979/samsung-sm951-512-gb-review/11)
Interesting, seems the vertical mounted M.2 is probably a better way to go.
Or they add heat-sinks or something.
I have Daz Studio on C: because it's less trouble like that. My renders can be well over 2 minutes...
Yes but your renders will not be pushing the M.2 to its maximum, I can't see it being much of a problem.
How much data can you move in 2 minutes @ 1800MB/s , it's a lot :D
Most of the rendering is done in RAM I think.
I agree with you, but such a drastic slow down in less than 2 mins makes me raise my eyebrows.
Better to have it throttle back under extreme loads than kill it's self, not ideal I know but I don't think it would put me off getting one, if I had the mobo and the cash.
Well after reinstalling Win 10 using a flash drive I'm thinking Data is years ahead of his time, it is my belief the whole computer system is still set up to use the DVD as a repair or setup media. I'm thinking of copying the flash drive onto a DVD just in case I need a repair in the future instead of playing around in bios setting up the usb.
Just as standard hard drives are being installed in the majority of computers DVD and in some cases Blue rays are also being installed and I don't think this will be changed any time soon.
Carl2
Not sure I am ahead of time really, the modern way is SSD and flash drives, spinners are on their way out, if we like it or not :)
Quote from: Carl2 on October 19, 2015, 13:32:36 PM
It is my belief the whole computer system is still set up to use the DVD as a repair or setup media.
No I think you are wrong Carl2 sorry, that can all be done with a flash drive.
Windows 10 - Creating a Windows 10 Repair Boot USB Recovery Drive
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UzphLuk5II (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UzphLuk5II)
Quote from: Data on October 19, 2015, 11:35:36 AM
Better to have it throttle back under extreme loads than kill it's self, not ideal I know but I don't think it would put me off getting one, if I had the mobo and the cash.
Well my renders can be over 20 minutes... I'm not sure if it use RAM or disk though.
It will use RAM and disk, that's how computers work mate ;D
There is no way it's going to push the SSD to maximum, it's going to drop little bits of data to the SSD in little packs from the render engine. That's how these things normally work.
At 1800MBs (the M.2 top speed give or take) you could copy 216 GB in 2 mins, are your renders around 200GB in size ?
:LOL:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nN9xsFUsPqM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nN9xsFUsPqM)
:rofl:
:headbang:
Done a bit of research on the M.2 heat Throttling Issues, it would seem that if you have a good air flow inside the PC, especially around where the M.2 is located that you shouldn't get any throttling issues.
QuoteWe don’t think you need to go out and buy heatsinks and cooling fans for your M.2 PCIe SSD as good airflow is enough to keep it from throttling.
http://www.legitreviews.com/samsung-sm951-512gb-m-2-pcie-ssd-review_161689/3 (http://www.legitreviews.com/samsung-sm951-512gb-m-2-pcie-ssd-review_161689/3)
But if you want to be extra careful you can put some of these on the M.2
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Copper-Memory-Chipset-Heatsinks-Thermal/dp/B00KBMB76I/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1415898916&sr=8-1 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Copper-Memory-Chipset-Heatsinks-Thermal/dp/B00KBMB76I/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1415898916&sr=8-1)
You would need to remove the M.2 label though and stick them on with some thermal glue. Which would probably void the warranty.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Thermal-Conductive-Heatsink-Adhesive-Compound/dp/B00KBNWKSQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1445338865&sr=8-1 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Thermal-Conductive-Heatsink-Adhesive-Compound/dp/B00KBNWKSQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1445338865&sr=8-1)
Well researched. :thumbsup:
I think I will wait a while for the price to come down a bit though.
M.2 heat Throttling Issues, very interesting, never realized this was an issue. So the first thing we do is void the warranty, not sure how many times I've done that.
Carl2
I don't think I would put the heatsinks on the M.2 just make sure there is plenty of air flow.
Here is a good video I found, explains the correct (modern) way to install windows onto an M.2.
I noticed all other drives must be disconnected when installing windows on UEFI BIOS if you want a secure boot, that includes all other SSD's HDD's and DVD / Blu Ray drives. Not a problem for me, I have always removed the other drives during an install, you should do.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=No-ct8pQcIg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=No-ct8pQcIg)
Intel+NVME+SSD+Review, I was just watching this review, it's on you tube but I was unable to get a link that worked. I guess its is NVME that actually gets the SSD up to speed. You would have to watch the vid to see what the reviewer is talking about.
Carl2
How about this one, Carl?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rh9d1SxmNoo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rh9d1SxmNoo)
Dave
That's the video, for me it seems to explain all that's going on with the quickest SSD's. It would be nice to be working with these drives but In the meantime I'm still working with the slower Sata which is somewhat quick. Manufactures are still using regular hard drives with a few of the higher priced ones using Sata 3, I still haven't seen any offered using a M.2 drive never mind the NVME.
Carl2
Just in case anyone else needs it, this is how I am going to do my install tomorrow.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=No-ct8pQcIg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=No-ct8pQcIg)
Freddy,
Good luck putting the M.2 in see if you can make a vid of the boot time.
Sounds like a really good system.
Carl2
It worked :D
A bit of flaffing around removing other SSD leads for the install. Got 10 installed and to the desktop fine following that video. Took about 30-45 minutes.
Straight away it is noticeably faster. Breezed through screens in Chrome.
I'm installing drivers and things atm, I'll do a benchmark later and see what the boot time is for Carl.
I had set up defaults in my BIOS temporarily and I ran the benchmark thing. The results were very nice.
Then I set up my overclocking again and it's shot right up. SSD is number 2 - just look at those speeds :o
According to them I have a UFO here :LOL:
http://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/490643 (http://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/490643)
Carl, Task Manager reports boot time was 14 seconds, which is about what it felt like.
1,493 MB/s mighty impressive, my Samsung EVO is about 450 MB/s, so according to this benchmark it is at least 3 times quicker 8) 8) 8)
Keep that BCLK at 100 Freddy, just in case ;)
Yes it's at 100 - I set it up the same way as before :thumbsup:
The new SSD is noticeably faster on things like installing and unzipping. I'm getting quick at these installs now. The bit I don't like is connecting the chassis fan lead when I put the sides back on - it's very fiddly :P
I had to check my speed first is the old gateway, into win 8 and I'm not sure how much different OS's load, 24 sec. I had to try the HP next and I have trouble believing it myself, 10 sec into win 10.
I did this timing it on a digital watch, not sure how it was done using task manager. So I feeling there is something wrong here.
Carl2
I don't think there is anything wrong really, you still have to wait for BIOS to load. But I do have the sound card driver and also my OneDrive which has an impact. It gives me time to feed the fish in the morning.
Once it's booted the desktop is immediate - there's no waiting for things to keep loading. So far it has made everything quite a bit quicker so I am pleased.
I've found windows 10 to be a strange beast, it can take a while to fully settle down and start booting at full speed, especially with fast boot enabled.
The HP has twice the sata speed as the Gateway so it should be about twice as fast loading, actually didn't realize they were that quick but I had expected a six core with M.2 to load quicker than the HP. I'd get pretty angry if I put over a thousand into a build, actually I don't know what I'd expect to get.
I just googled one drive and as I thought it's Microsoft storage, I've got 4 hard drives and just formatted one 500Gb for additional storage plus the small SSD drive for storage. It ends up getting formatted as a Master boot drive for some reason and isn't visible in explorer. I remember running into that before.
Carl2
I don't think I am going to get upset about 14 seconds to be honest...
I'd say you have a very good machine, something to be proud of, I'm envious really. It seems my chance to get out of the Quads has come and gone. Seems it depends how much hardware you have to load drivers for. Anyways good luck with your Daz work, seems you have them buying groceries.
Carl2
Thanks Carl, yes I am pleased with it. As an unexpected upgrade it's gone well. Now to save up for a new graphics card, but that will be some time. I think the hardware does add to the boot yes, the graphics drivers are pretty big.
Thanks about the Daz work too, I'm still waiting to hear if they are accepted.
Got an email from eBuyer about that first SSD - they found it was faulty, so maybe they could be used in my MB.
I think this is fortuitous though as I get the better piece of kit in the end.
Quote from: Freddy on November 16, 2015, 14:20:20 PM
Got an email from eBuyer about that first SSD - they found it was faulty, so maybe they could be used in my MB.
I think this is fortuitous though as I get the better piece of kit in the end.
Oh it was faulty, well that might explain something then.
But yes it made you get the faster PCIe drive, worth it in the end, agreed :)
From what I'd read it seems like Freddy put a faulty drive in his computer, seems good and a good drive should give better results. Best of luck.
Carl2
Thanks Carl - yep it was odd about it being faulty, I just thought it was not compatible.
This new M.2 seems to be doing okay though, everything is nice and quick.
Freddy I have been meaning to ask you but keep forgetting.
Have you noticed any problems with heat or slowdowns from the M.2 ?
No mate I don't think so - you were right it seems to be doing well. It's always very snappy.
My case internal heat sits at the same 25 degrees each day. It only goes up to about 30 when I do a lot of rendering which is to be expected of course.
But no - no extra heat that I notice.
It's so quick with unzipping and things.
As far as solid state drives, I'm using a 120 Gb with win 8.1 on it and I'm just beginning to notice a slight slow down on start up. I've got a pic of a window and a pic of me on a startup screen, usually I just see a sec of the window and then the desktop, now I see a little more of the window and can now see my pic swipe by. I think the 120 Gb is too small, now that prices are better I've been buying 240 Gb. I also have the webcam up there could be that.
Glad you're doing good Freddy, I really like that setup you have there, I have to keep track of Intel since they have new cpu's coming out, I'm actually still happy with what I have though and no place to put another one.
Thanks for the up-date there Freddy, if I was to build myself a new system today it would absolutely have an M.2 in there. That is some machine you have there now 8) and I'm not just typing that for nothing.
I'm with Carl2 as well, my system now is fast enough for what I need, no rush to up-grade but I know one day it will happen.
Thanks both, yes it's nice to have the speed and it's really proving itself with the work I am doing currently. It's worth buying things in stages instead of a whole new build, at least for me. I would rarely have enough money at any one time to be able to do a full new build, so yep I do it in stages
Have you guys seen how cheap some brands of SSD are now ? I get a lot of emails from hardware companies, they seem to be hammering the prices now.
I just took a quick look at the SSD's prices seem to be getting better, larger drives and lower prices. On builds I'd rather put in components that don't need to be upgraded, spend the money once and have it done with. Freddy has been able to sell parts which I'd rather not get involved in. Nice to see all my SSD's are being used without problems.
I'm getting a bit shy of HP since they have their own motherboards made and cut expenses by leaving out features.
Carl2
If you time it right and swap things out every year or two you can half the cost of upgrading - things just need to be in demand still.
Like my nVidia GPU was £250 and I sold the old AMD for £130.
We don't want a single m.2 do we, how about 3 in RAID 0 :drooling:
Check it out :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dA8yNEZgQU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dA8yNEZgQU)
Had to happen :D
15TB SSD anyone ? Twice the speed of consumer models ?
http://www.kitguru.net/components/ssd-drives/matthew-wilson/samsung-launches-15tb-v-nand-ssd/ (http://www.kitguru.net/components/ssd-drives/matthew-wilson/samsung-launches-15tb-v-nand-ssd/)
Huge capacity, not as fast as PCIe M.2.
Impressive all the same.
I've tried raid arrays years ago to decrease boot time with mechanical drives, even though I was able to see an increase in through put it still didn't decrease the boot time. Even back in those days people were putting in raid SSD's. Really wish they mentioned the boot time.
$400 for a motherboard, I'd think that is what most people want to spend for a new laptop.
Carl2
That $400 motherboard falls into the realm of "enthusiast gear", and that stuff isn't cheap. These posts about new tech for our PC's is just a bit depressing, since my desires outstrip my budget, but I love keeping up with all the new kit, so I don't mind, really. :)
I'm really getting confused about the latest SSD's M.2, PCI express with a series of numbers. And You have to look at the motherboards to see what they support. There are also a growing number of PCI express numbers PCI express 3.0x4 seems to be the highest. Anyways I came across this on a higher priced motherboard
1 x M.2 port, supports M.2 SATA 6Gb/s module* or M.2 PCIe module up to 32Gb/s speed**
- M.2 port supports 4.2cm/ 6cm/ 8cm length module
- M.2 PCIe module does not support RAID 0, RAID1, RAID 5 and RAID 10
* The SATA Express port or SATA5~6 ports will be unavailable when installing the M.2 (Gen2 x2 mode) module in the M.2 port.
** Intel RST does not support PCIe M.2 SSD with Legacy ROM.
also this
10x SATA 6Gb/s ports (2x ports reserved for SATA Express port)*
- SATA1~6 support RAID 0, RAID 1, RAID 5 and RAID 10
- SATA7~10 ports only support IDE mode and AHCI mode
- Supports Intel Smart Response Technology (Windows 7/ 8/ 8.1)
Newegg is usual pretty good at providing info but I'm lost at this point.
Carl2
Carl2 that all looks good to me, what are you confused about.
The board will take the fastest 32Gb/s M.2 and still give you 8 x SATA to connect standard SSD's at the same time. Sounds good to me.
PCI express 3.0x4 seems to have the fastest transfers, if doing a build I think it's one of the last things I'd buy and put in. Reading reviews where the SSD isn't even detected and failed SSD's must be making me edgy. I did see some combo deals with MB, memory and SSD can be purchased together.
Carl2
Seen these Data ?
I need a bigger SSD to fit my Unity and Daz stuff on.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/SanDisk-Z400s-Solid-State-Drive/dp/B00Z1NP0X8/ref=sr_1_2 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/SanDisk-Z400s-Solid-State-Drive/dp/B00Z1NP0X8/ref=sr_1_2)
Looks ok, not a bad price for 256GIG at the end of the day. Have used SanDisk SSD's before, no probs with them at all.
Thank you - I'll give it a go next week hopefully.
It's quite an interesting SSD, performance seems about half the speed of the Samsung 850 EVO, so it's not ground-breaking there but its power consumption is lower, it seems aimed more at the laptop market but would be fine in a PC as a storage drive.
Found this:
http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/sandisk-z400s-dram-less-ssd,review-33390-5.html (http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/sandisk-z400s-dram-less-ssd,review-33390-5.html)
Seems fine for storage then :)
I just had Nvidia update the drivers for the graphics card, the computer is a bit old and I was surprised it was being updated. During the process I began thinking if that update was loaded to a different drive would that speed up the computer. I don't believe I have anything that really loads down the computer, possibly Dragon could be a little quicker. So if we build a computer put only the OS on one drive and move all additional software to another drive, possibly use a raid drive would we see any noticeable increase in speed?
Carl2
Speaking strictly from personal experience, offloading everything except the OS to another drive generally slows the system, rather than speed it up, but it's by a pretty small factor. I've done it for a large number of years now (since Win 98), and this has always been the case for me, so I'm fairly confident in my assessment. Using RAID arrays can speed things up, but the main advantage of RAID is in redundancy, rather than speed. More often than not, with older systems the bottleneck isn't just with long term storage, but a number of factors. RAM, clock speeds, OS code bloat and other factors can represent larger bottlenecks than disk IO, and depending on the age and specs of a system, throwing in a pair of SSD's in a RAID array may not reap the benefits that might be expected. This is a complicated issue, so I'm generally loathe to advise on the issue till I've seen the whole picture.
I pretty well agree with Dave there.
I would just add that you shouldn't even try to install the NVidia driver up-dates to any drive other then the OS drive, drivers should be on the PC's OS drive. Anything else is just asking for trouble.
So yeah, keep your programs on the OS drive too, the only thing to look out for is SSD space, if an SSD starts to run out of space they can and do slow down a bit. In a "perfect world" you want something like 30% free space.
I've always thought RAID was a bit like overkill for home systems, most people would probably go for external storage instead. It makes most sense in things like servers to me, where you don't want to lose everything at once and could still get by until the bad drive is replaced.
For my SSDs I've gone for 75% full and no more as my target.
that's a good figure to use. Any more than that and the drive will start to suffer performance issues, I think.
I once had a computer (before SSD's) with 2 mechanical drives set up in raid for speed, not a bad system and ran for ages without problems. I don't think I'd care for external drives but I do like the hot swap drives in the Gateway, just slide a drive in the bay.
So I'll go with Kiss ( keep it simple stupid ) quicker and easier in the long run.
Carl2
Keep it simple, sounds good Carl2
M.2 for OS and programs and as big SATA SSD as you can get for file storage.
I'm seeing some great prices for SSD's at Newegg, 149 for a Samsung 500 Gb sounds about right for me. It's hard to believe prices have dropped that low. I'd like to put in Blender and play with the 3 D figures but for the time and effort put in I don't have enough confidence to think I'll get very far. Spending is at a min now till my funds are higher.
Carl2
Anyone been keeping an eye on SSDs lately ?
Looking for around 500GB if someone has seen something nice :)
Are you talking SATA or M.2 ?
Either way Samsung still look good today.
Actually half that might be okay too.
Looks like the Samsungs seem to be holding their ground.
EDIT: posted at the same time.
Internal SATA. I think I will get a Samsung. It's mainly going to be for games.
This might do it : https://www.amazon.co.uk/Samsung-inch-Solid-State-Drive/dp/B01AAKZRP2/ref=sr_1_1?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1478037202&sr=1-1
Bang for bucks is pretty good on that one, most people seem to go for the 850 these days but whether you would actually notice anything between them in games, probably not.
I keep looking at the PCIe drives and I'm still waiting for that new cpu,
I'd like to see what they say about the AMD cpu.
Carl2
I see that Corsair have released a new M.2 drive, it's competing with Samsung at the top level, here is a video of some early benchmarks, there is also some info in there about the Samsung M.2's.
It seems that Samsung are still the boss when it comes to M.2.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0t3zqpFAudw
Nice that you found that Data, the 960 isn't being sold at Newegg yet. The same thing a bigger the drive the quicker it is, I wonder if I'm ready for a 500 Gb yet. Amazing Boot times I didn't think it could get that low.
Carl2
There has been a huge leap made in SSD technology from Intel, they are calling it 3D Xpoint (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3D_XPoint) originally announced by Intel in 2015, now available to buy, at high cost of course.
It seems to be capable of speeds around 1000 x faster than the SSD's we use now. so lots of potential there, however I should point out that it is capable of going much faster than our PC's are, They will need to catch up with 3D Xpoint.
Oh it also has a longer life than our SSD's do.
Not something we should rush out to get but good news regarding the future of SSD's.
Interesting, found these snippets...
QuotePerformance is described as slightly better than NAND flash
Not anything to write home about yet.
QuoteIndividual data cells do not need a transistor, so packing density will be four times that of DRAM
Which is good.
I wonder if this is anything to do with mristor tech?
And a vid for those that like to stare at things.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWsjbqbkqh8
Yes they are calling it "transistor-less technology", it sounds like memristors to me.
PCIe is going to need to get faster to keep up with these monsters. A good M.2 is now only a small amount away from saturating the PCIe x 4 bus.
A faster PCIe has already been thought of and is included in the in the Intel roadmap. I saw a vid of a computer build with the NVMe storage in raid 0 and the boot time was 7 sec, I've got 10 sec with a regular SSD. It seems the biggest thing is making things smaller which allows a computer with more cores.
Carl2
I'm not really up to date with SSD, but it looks like I am running out of space now. Games take up a lot.
Looking at these two as Samsung still seem to be the best in the market.
850 Pro 512 (https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00LF10KTO/_encoding=UTF8?coliid=I1TYSBKVJIFXF8&colid=O3LJM63KH1I0&psc=1) - about the best older model
860 Pro 512 (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Samsung-Sata-Solid-State-Drive/dp/B078WQL6XF/ref=dp_ob_title_ce) - Out end of month
The question is - do folks think it is better to go with tried and tested, or go for the new release and hope it lives up to it's predecessor ?
The 860 is only a little faster, but their prices (at the moment pre-order for the 860) are about the same.
A little about the 860s here :
https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2018/1/23/16923532/samsung-860-evo-pro-ssd-850-models-sold-state-drives-3d-nand
Cheers :)
The last build I did for a customer I put one of these in:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Crucial-MX300-525GB-Internal-Solid/dp/B01IAGSD68/
Was seriously impressed with it, was an i3 that booted in under 10 seconds, for storage purposes I don't think you can go far wrong especially for the price.
Half the price :o
Do you think Steam would be okay on it ? I'm not really sure how much games rely on the SSD once they are loaded...
Yeah Steam would love it mate :thumbsup:
You won't notice much in the way of FPS improvement during gameplay, but load times during game startup, as well as between zones, and possibly game saves (roughly anything that reads from/writes to the drive) should see a marked improvement.
BTW, for that kind of price, I wouldn't mind picking up a couple to replace my stable of HDD's. It would take 3 minimum, however, so ~350 or so quid. gonna take me some time to get that kind of dosh together.
Thanks gents - that's what I thought Dave. :thumbsup:
I like this site for comparing things : http://ssd.userbenchmark.com/Compare/OCZ-Agility-3-240GB-vs-Crucial-MX300-525GB/369vs3643
I'll keep the old Agility 3 in there but use it more for storage and less used programs.
If you look at that comparison then the Crucial wins hands down.
Quote from: DaveMorton on January 23, 2018, 23:01:11 PM
BTW, for that kind of price, I wouldn't mind picking up a couple to replace my stable of HDD's. It would take 3 minimum, however, so ~350 or so quid. gonna take me some time to get that kind of dosh together.
Yeah, glad I asked and checked with Mr Data :)
Saved me £100 :thumbsup:
It might not be the ripping speed of the Samsungs but it's still quick and would load them games nicely, I doubt you would notice the difference compared to the Samsungs in game load time.
Well the Agility has been doing fine for me - that's where Steam lives atm. It's only because I am running out of space. I can't think when I bought the Agility, must be quite a few years ago now - it's done well.
And further to that, the Corsair will be faster, so that's nice.
I've got a 60GB SSD in there which is the one the Corsair will replace. I'm going to do a thorough spring clean I think and get rid of things I don't use or need that has collected on my drives.
It's not Corsair it's Crucial ;)
I recently gave mine a good clean out, got back loads of SSD space, always good to do 8)
My old Agility is still going strong too :)
Doh !
This thread has caused me to want to (rather fearfully) check and see how well (read: poorly) my system is doing, now it's gotten a bit long in the tooth, and is relying on ancient video tech. I didn't want to go off topic here, however, than simply announcing it, but I needed someone to share the pain with. I've posted my benchmark results here (http://www.datahopa.co.uk/forum/full-privileges-board/benchmarks/msg35209/?topicseen#new).
There is a new ultra fast M.2 SSD on the market, almost identical to the Samsung 960 Pro in performance, but a good bit cheaper. It seriously does look like a good option if or when a new M.2 is required for your rig.
Available in 3 flavours.
240GB / 480GB / 960GB
ADATA XPG SX8200
https://www.tomshardware.co.uk/adata-xpg-sx8200-ssd-review,review-34354.html
Today the 240GB version is £82 on Amazon.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/ADATA-ASX8200NP-240GT-C-GEN3X4-Solid-State/dp/B07BLNFSQN/
Nice find, a hair more at Newegg. Great the way prices come down for electronics.
Carl2