Datahopa

I would of loved to been able to see one of these at the air shows. I feel it was a bad presidential choice to dump this Comanche project. but that's just my opinion

Boeing/Sikorsky RAH-66 Comanche (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0R1ISQAmqk#)

One of many promising "Project Cancelled" aircraft that would have been great to see in servivce.

Hmmmm, I feel the basis of a new thread on that subject coming..........

That was a great Idea :thumbsup:, so I changed the title. Hope you don't mind

No problem Sybershot, I will follow the Comanche with AH-56 Cheyenne Attack helicopter .

Now this was a tasty piece of kit, it even had a grenade launcher on board  :o

AH-56 Cheyenne attack helicopter (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVYwPFzY-DI#)

 :o I never seen that one before, I really like the upside down tail fin design. It also has a mean beefy  look to it from the front view. I can only imagine how much fire power that baby was designed to hold. I will have to look into that.

This one will help you with that Sybershot, this project was cancekked in 1972:


AH-56 Cheyenne (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8kb5znL4FQ#)

Thanks a lot DD1975  :thumbsup:
Can I get one of those fully loaded please  :D

Now I will move onto a slightly more controversial subject, the Miles M - 52.

This is the aircraft that SHOULD have broken the sound barrier, and it was British.

The reason I call it controversial is because the Miles aircraft company had researched the technology required to manouvre at high speed during the war (the all moving tailplane). When their prototype was about 80% complete they were obliged to share their research with Bell who created the X - 1, suddenly just weeks later the M - 52 was cancelled.

Later it transpired that the X - 1 already had the all moving tailplane parts built into it, but that Bell didn't know what it was for and didn't build it in a working manner.

Lastly, the M - 52 was a jet engined aircraft rather than a rocket plane (like the X - 1) and could take off an land under its own power, when 1 third size models were later tried outr (Once Bell had beeen allowed to break the sound barrier) it was found the design was sound and would have worked:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miles_M.52 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miles_M.52)

Miles M.52 - England's Supersonic Research Project - Another Promising Prototype Abandoned By The UK (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3j5KbOnoYU#)

Sounds like typical behind-the-scenes shenanigans, but with two governments, instead of one. o.0

BTW, the soundtrack was just a little loud for my tastes.

Nice looking craft, but where is the cockpit?

QuoteBTW, the soundtrack was just a little loud for my tastes.

Dave if that was sarcasm, I'm sorry for posting what I'm about to write.
WHERE IS THE SOUND ??? Silence is defining you know lol

lol, you're fine, Syber. It's just my sense of humor, overriding my good sense. After the rather disturbing surprise I got when Data's New Post Notice popped up, I thought I'd throw in some levity to even things out. But how can someone as odd as I am make things "even"? :P

Quotelol, you're fine, Syber. It's just my sense of humor, overriding my good sense.

8)

QuoteAfter the rather disturbing surprise I got when Data's New Post Notice popped up

I read about that in the E-notify thread, I can only imagine your expression when the sound went off. please forgive me, but I almost :rofl: after reading that. However I do hope you did not damage your eardrums, I did that before twice, once while diving, and the second when I had a nasty cold. I wish that pain on no one.

QuoteI thought I'd throw in some levity to even things out. But how can someone as odd as I am make things "even"? Tongue

I could think of a few fun ways :D but they would be to extreme, so I will keep my  :-X

Syber, the plane was modelled on th 0.303 bullet used by the British armed forces, the pilot sat in the nose cone!!!

Dave sorry, I found you a quieter one  ;) :

Miles M52 v Bell X1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jR_h2N2LYk#)

This one is for Sybershot:

Miles M.52 Electric Ducted Fan powered scale model jet in flight. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YecW6BySA5U#ws)

Thanks DD1975  :D
At first I wondering how he was going to take off without landing gear, was he going to hand launch? the I saw the nifty launch pad. I also see now more clearly where the pilot sits, A nifty design indeed.  :thumbsup: too bad they canceled this one as well. So many great Aircraft get canceled after millions of man hours and $$ poured into them, makes me wonder sometimes how a aircraft business can even stay above water financially  :scratch-head:

In the case of the British aircraft industry, due to exteremely poor political decisions, it very nearly didn't Syber!!!!!

Even now, our industry is a tiny fraction the size it was in the 1950's  :(

I believe even the aircraft industries here in America are not doing all that great either, due to poor political decisions and other variables. Even N.A.S.A. is not as healthy as it use to be. I believe if you build it use it or at least sell it at bare minimum display it. I think it is a bad business decision to build something if it is not going to be used, sold, or displayed.

For Britain this is where it all went wrong:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1957_Defence_White_Paper (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1957_Defence_White_Paper)

Quite simply a staggeringly stupid set of decisions that detroyed a whole industry which at the time was still one of the world leaders.

While I'm sure that was a key factor at the time, it came 13 years after the whole M52 debacle, so I think it was "going wrong" well before that paper came out. And we Yanks weren't exactly shining examples of Friends and Allies, either, were we? (hate the country, not the countryman).

I kind of digressed away from the M52, sorry!

The M52 was a slightly different situation, at that time I think there was a certain political expediancey to stay on the good side with the US which had a contribution to that affair.

Also Miles was a small company, who mainly only made small civil aircraft so the M52 project was way out there for them.

When the 57 defence review came out and Duncan Sandys decided that all manned aircraft would be scrapped(!) the aircraft indsustry was still in pretty good shape, with export orders for aircraft such as the English Electric Canberra and the Hawker Hunter going well.

There were plenty of pretty radical aircraft being developed at the time which were cancelled out flat, the only aircraft to survive were the TSR2 and the English Electric Lightning which ws considered too far along in deveolpment to be cancelled.

I will follow up with one or two of these projects next I think  8)

This one is a beauty >> Northrop XP-79B "Flying Ram"

(http://www.fiddlersgreen.net/aircraft/Northrop-XP79/IMAGES/Northrop-XP-79B-Jet-Flying-Ram-Front-Angle.jpg)

Length : 4.27m
Wing Span : 11.58m
Hight : 2.13m
Wing Area : 25.83 Square Meter
All-Up Weight : 3,932Kg
Engine : Westinghouse 19-B X 2
Max Speed : 880Km/h
Cruis Speed : 772Km/h
Range : 1,598Km
Service Ceiling : 12,192m
Crew : 1
Armament : 12.7mm Machine Gun X 4

Edited by Snowcrash 28/02/12. Note, you can add pics from external links direct into posts using the "insert image" button (left of hyperlink button)

Nice find Syber, not sure I've seen that one before.

4 x .50 cal machine guns seems a little light for the period though, you would rather have four 20mm cannon!!!

Thanks, I happen to come across it wile searching military ranks lol. I agree about the firepower is on the low side, I did not do a wiki search yet but maybe that is one of the reasons it was cancelled  :scratch-head:

Quite a few articles on this one, but this appeared to be a s good as any:

http://www.fiddlersgreen.net/models/aircraft/Northrop-XP79.html (http://www.fiddlersgreen.net/models/aircraft/Northrop-XP79.html)

And that answers the question on the armament, when conceived 4 x 50 cals would have been sufficient......especially in a plane designed to ram it's opponents!!!!

Thanks for sharing your findings :thumbsup: I have been to busy on designing logo's for my site, to do any research. The logo's are getting better, but still need more work done to a few of them.

I heard before from someone about some craft being made to just ram there opponents. I thought the person who was telling me this was fibbing. I guess he was telling the truth :o

I could see the conversation now: What do you do for a living? "oh nothing really interesting, just literally crash into enemy aircraft when needed." :P

Here is another Britsh design, this time the "Insurance Bomber" the Short Sperrin.

Designed in case the V bombers took too long to develop the Sperrin never made it past the prototype stage due to the success of the V force development. It did however have a relatively successful period as a testbed for engines and other equipment.

http://www.aer.ita.br/~bmattos/mundo/exp/sperrin.htm (http://www.aer.ita.br/~bmattos/mundo/exp/sperrin.htm)

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Nice design there, looks pretty solid as well.

Basically WW2 tech with some jet engines slapped on, you boys did the same with these fellows:



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Been a bit sinvce the last entry on this so I thought I would drop in the Ryan X-13 Vertijet:

This one comes with Video  ;D

Ryan X-13 Vertijet Experimental VTOL Air Force Aircraft - Vertical Take Off And Landing (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rs3wkylScHw#ws)



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I never really liked that planes design, However the concept of vertical take off is awesome. I feel all planes should be able to take off vertically, it would save so much land space :)

I could not watch the video yet, for my main rig caught a virus while I was searching Google images. I'm on my laptop which has windows 8 and it will not play the video :( I'm doing a virus scan now, to see if my virus protector would pick it up. If not I will go and delete myself.

Quote from: sybershot on March 13, 2012, 23:52:48 PM
If not I will go and delete myself.

That sounds funny how it reads  :LOL:

But sorry to hear about the virus  >:D, I'm also sure you will deal with it :thumbsup:

The video is quite interesting both in its content and the way that its been narrated with a text to speech voice.       

QuoteThat sounds funny how it reads  lol

Funny thing was, I had to actually delete it myself  :P
A quick scan showed nothing, and I was not about to w8 4 hours for a full system scan.
Trinity is back on line :)

Back to topic, Nice video there  :thumbsup:. One question though, is it me or did the voice sound like a computer animated voice?

Quote from: sybershot on March 14, 2012, 01:04:40 AM
Back to topic, Nice video there  :thumbsup:. One question though, is it me or did the voice sound like a computer animated voice?

Isn't that what I just said  ;D

Quote from: Data on March 14, 2012, 00:05:30 AM
The video is quite interesting both in its content and the way that its been narrated with a text to speech voice.       

Yeah it's like a video we could have made  :)

Quote
Isn't that what I just said  Grin

Dough!!!!! Sorry Data, I missed the ending of your sentence. I have no Idea how I could of missed that, I also have no excuse to give either.  It is not like I was rushing to read or anything, I'm stumped and Sorry.

Hehe, no probs Syber, no one is perfect :)

Don't think I have heard that particular voice before. 

QuoteDon't think I have heard that particular voice before. 

can't say that I have either  :scratch-head:

Quote from: sybershot on March 13, 2012, 23:52:48 PM
If not I will go and delete myself.

That sounds pretty drastic Syber  :o

QuoteThat sounds pretty drastic Syber  Shocked

yea lol that would be drastic, and I laughed myself after Data pointed it out.
I would of went back and corrected it, but I though others could use the laugh as well  :D

Well it certainly made me laugh  :thumbsup:

The flying boat interceptor the Saunders-Roe SR-A1

http://hud607.fire.prohosting.com/uncommon/aircraft/sra1/index.html (http://hud607.fire.prohosting.com/uncommon/aircraft/sra1/index.html)

And videos

Saunders Roe SR A-1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxUncWwSTYs#)

Wet Jets: Sanders Roe SR A/1 and Convair Sea Dart (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pl1aMVnZyY#)

And as it was in the second video, here is the WIKI for the Convair Seadart:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convair_F2Y_Sea_Dart (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convair_F2Y_Sea_Dart)

And time for the TSR2, probably one of the best aircraft never to go into service, likelyhood is that this plane would still have been in serice until the early 2000's and the Tornado would never have been built!!!

TSR 2 Test Flight (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXdJxjvQZW4#)

I never seen one of those, I like it  :thumbsup:
those angle tipped wings sure looks sleek.

TSR stood for Tatical Strike Reconnaissance.

The airframe was capable of Mach 3, in fact it is rumoured that on one test flight the TSR2 left an English Electric Lightning on full afterburn for dead on 1 engine!!!!

The cancellation of this aircraft was a disaster, there was a lot of politics involved we nearly bought the F111 instead which was a far less sophisticated airaft that the TSR2, that didn't happen either and the oirder was cancelled as the F11 was very late and massivly over budget.


Both projects cost the UK tax payer over £500 in the 1960's!!!

WEended up with the Blackburn Buccaneer and the Phantom 2 (with RR Spey engines and under powered).

Thanks for the details  :thumbsup:

I have to admit though I always liked the Phantom 2.  I guess if the TRS made it to service, we maybe would of had to place the Phantom 2 here in this thread :)

Nah the Phantom was predominantly a fighter and was a good enough aircraft to carve out its own niche, especially when they remembered to give it a gun for dogfighting in Vietnam!

Here is the WIki on the TSR2, makes for good reading

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BAC_TSR-2 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BAC_TSR-2)

Just read the wiki article, and saw this quote:

QuoteAll modern aircraft have four dimensions: span, length, height and politics. TSR-2 simply got the first three right.  — Sir Sydney Camm

Sad, but true. Not to mention slightly funny. :P

Sidney Camm seemed to have a great sense of humour as well as being a brilliant aircraft designer  :D

Talking of mach 3 bombers how about th XB-70 Valkyrie

XB-70 Valkyrie - The Mach 3 bomber (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wsPLthWrr8#)

There is a sight I have not seen in a while. I would like to go for a ride in that one :)

Unfortunately only two built and one of those crashed!!

XB-70 Crash Sequence( The Only ONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEP7niGqiNg#)

It did go a long way to the understanding of the vortacies that large aircraft create, however it took the death of a very experienced pilot to learn that, all for what was a promotional shot for General Electric (who made the engines in all the aircraft present)

The lesser known Blackbird, the YF-12.

This was a mach 3 interceptor

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_YF-12 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_YF-12)

You will notice the very different nose area, this was for the radar.



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one sweet machine there, way ahead of it's time  :thumbsup:

Staying on the mach 3 theme and crossing through the Iron Curtain the Sukhoi T-4:

Sukhoi T-4 Sotka (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hm4_wI2odtg#)

Nad the Wiki

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_T-4 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_T-4)

Been a while since anything was added here so thought I would stick in the Avro CF-105 Arrow.

In 1958 Canada was posided to take the lead in Interceptor technology when the programme was controvertibly axed before it's full potential could be gauged.

First Flight of the Avro Arrow (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8lTGTPQlDE#)

Nice video, Thanks for sharing. That thing looks like a great ride :) Sorry I have not been able to add anything lately.

No worries Syber, I've been a little busy myself recently  :D

Yes the Arrow was a large aircraft, but nice too. The US benefited hugely from it's demise as all the engineers who worked on it ended up working for US companies as the cancellation basically killed Avro Canada

You guys seen this ?

Avro Arrow replica unveiled (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJ84gJDjpCg#ws)

That machine was huge.  :o No need for Radar, you could see that coming from miles away.

She was a big old beast, but to be fair she was an interceptor the same as the English Electric Lightning so was designed to stop the russian bombers coming in over the artic. Size was really not an issue.

Although officially the prototypes were all scrapped and the machinery destroyed (the same as the TSR-2 programme in the UK) there have been persistant rumours that one of the prototypes was brought to the UK in secret for testing.  I should point out this was never substantiated, but it apparently was something of an urban legend in the RAF in the 60's.

SyberShot<< likes fast planes urban legend :)

Now for something Civilian for a change.

50 years a go this was a revolutionary design, yet again politics got in the way:

The Fairey Rotodyne (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4Z1UnRZDyo#)

That flew a lot better than the rc version shower earlier in the rc post :) nice video, dang politics

Cancelled because apperently it wastoo loud, even though Fairy had silencers for the tip jts in production at the time that would have brought well within noise tolerences  :(

The worls first supersonic airliner the Tupolev TU-144 most famous for breaking up in midair and cra=shing into a housing estate at the Pari airshow.

Tupolev - Tu-144 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWV43zaev4g#)

Russian TU-144 Tupolev Crash (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IstWYY644pg#)

I remember that. There was no official statement from either France or Russia but rumor was that France buzzed the Tupolev (concordsky) with Mirage(s) causing the pilot to make evasive action and the wing folded.

Poor design. I think it folded at -1 g or less. Concord would've survived.


Edited: I put Mig(s) Doh! Meant Mirage(s)

the French had a mirage taking pictures of the tu-144, I believe this has since been admitted.

they also believe that there was a cameraman in the cockpit who wasn't strapped in, speculation was that the camera nay have been dropped and jammed the control column. this also would not have happened on Concorde.