SGML HTML XML What's the Difference?

Snowcrash · April 22, 2016, 22:00:24 PM

Found these and thought they were interesting. Will be at least one more.

Snowcrash · April 30, 2016, 10:38:56 AM

Anyone like these?

Data · April 30, 2016, 11:39:03 AM

I've just watched them all, educational for me.

Did laugh at one point, back in the old days they said it was fine to omit end tags to save disk space.

Snowcrash · May 28, 2016, 19:56:21 PM

Found a related vid...

8pla.net · June 11, 2016, 16:51:26 PM

Interesting Computer Science presentations.

Sample: index.php with PHP and SGML tags and more...

Code Select


<!DOCTYPE html>
<html>
<head>
<script language="php">
   echo "<h3>Wowee!  I'm a script style tag!</h3>";
</script>
</head>
<body>
<pre>
<?php  echo "Hey, I'm a php style tag!"; ?>


<? echo "And, I'm an optional SGML style tag!"; ?>
</pre>
</body>
</html>

Optionally there is also support for SGML style tags, by configuring the php.ini file (supposedly). Yet, a collision with parsing XML, may explain why SGML style tags are rarely used in PHP, I think. But, Computer Science is always evolving, it seems.

DaveMorton · June 12, 2016, 13:50:41 PM

[off-topic]
Hey, 8-man, you might be interested in knowing that I've recently re-designed the AIML validator in Program O to use XML Schema (XSD), rather than the old XML DocType Declaration (DTD). This change allows the validator to detect improper syntax within <pattern> and <that> tags, which in turn virtually eliminates "botmaster error" type issues where punctuation creeps into the AIML inputs. I'll soon be putting this AIML validator up as both part of an "AIML Toolkit/repository" and as a stand-alone page on my website, both available for everyone to be able to use.
[/off-topic]

Snowcrash · June 29, 2016, 20:32:51 PM

Found this related vid.

8pla.net · July 02, 2016, 01:55:10 AM

I enjoyed these videos, and he is certainly entitled to his opinion. But, I have to politely disagree with his claim that HTML is a programming language. There just isn't any "programming" going on in HTML. The Hypertext links via the Markup Language to something "programmed" already. Therefore, any "programming" has already taken place.

DaveMorton · July 02, 2016, 03:54:43 AM

Quote from: 8pla.net on July 02, 2016, 01:55:10 AM
There just isn't any "programming" going on in HTML. The Hypertext links via the Markup Language to something "programmed" already. Therefore, any "programming" has already taken place.

Ah, but I have to disagree with that premise, as well. Let's look at this as a form of pseudo-code, using a very simple example. First, the HTML:

Code Select


<html>
  <body>
    <h1>Welcome!</h1>
    <p>This is just a simple paragraph</p>
  </body>
</html>

Now, what it would look like in PHP-like code:

Code Select


$p = 'This is just a simple paragraph';
$h1 = 'Welcome!';

$body = body(array(h1($h1), p($p));

exit(html($body));


// functions - this is what the web browser does to format the content (sort of):

function h1($content) {
  $content->font_size = 6; // arbitrary number - larger than normal
  $content->font_weight = 'bold';
  return $content;
}

function p($content) {
  $content->text_indent = '1em'; // Indent the first letter by the width of the letter M
  $content->padding = '2em';
  return $content;
}

function body (Array $contentArray) {
  $output = '';
  foreach ($contentArray as $content) {
    $output .= $content;
  }
  return $output;
}

function html ($input) {
  echo ($input);
}

Of course this is pretty much a ridiculously primitive and simple example, but I think it gets my point across. Just because you're not writing the individual functions themselves doesn't mean you're not 'programming'. According to Merriam Webster, a "program" is as follows:

Quote from: Merriam-Webster

Full Definition of program
1 [Late Latin programma, from Greek]:
a public notice

2
a : a brief usually printed outline of the order to be followed, of the features to be presented, and the persons participating (as in a public performance)
b : the performance of a program; especially : a performance broadcast on radio or television
3:
a plan or system under which action may be taken toward a goal
4:
curriculum
5:
prospectus, syllabus
6
a : a plan for the programming of a mechanism (as a computer)
b : a sequence of coded instructions that can be inserted into a mechanism (as a computer)
c : a sequence of coded instructions (as genes or behavioral responses) that is part of an organism

For our needs, #6b applies, as HTML code is a sequence of coded instructions for a web browser to interpret and display. Sure, the main portion of the "code" lies within the web browser, but without the HTML instructions to interpret and display, the browser by itself cannot work. Thus, when we write HTML code, we're programming the browser to display what we tell (instruct) it to. So while it's very limited, HTML ~IS~ a programming language.

Data · July 02, 2016, 12:20:15 PM

This is an interesting conundrum, maybe as computers evolve and the programming becomes easier we will need to redefine what a "programming language" is.

Who can write a program in 1's and 0's ?

To make it easier layers are added, then more layers are added on top to make it even easier.

Is HTML a programming language ? Yes it is because it's just another layer on the road to binary.

Snowcrash · July 02, 2016, 14:40:05 PM

HTML doesn't have an if/then/else statement so isn't a programming language in that sense.

DaveMorton · July 02, 2016, 15:48:10 PM

A decision tree isn't a required part of a program, so while HTML lacks the ability to execute a decision tree, that doesn't disqualify it as a programming language.

DaveMorton · July 02, 2016, 15:51:11 PM

You'll notice that I'm rigidly avoiding the use of CSS/JS here, and keeping strictly to HTML. If the other two languages were tossed into the mix, then there would basically be no discussion.

8pla.net · July 03, 2016, 20:04:33 PM

Thanks for the response, Dave. Everything that follows is strictly friendly toned. i do respect your point of view, and enjoy reading it. I just friendly disagree, meaning it is a really weak disagreement, and I am still interested in your theories, and willing to keep an open mind about how you might go about proving them. Same with the guy in the video. He's a smart fellow too.

However, let me, just for the sake of conversation, add that the following is also valid php code:

filename: welcome.php

Code Select


<html>
  <body>
    <h1>Welcome!</h1>
    <p>This is just a simple PHP file</p>
  </body>
</html>

"a plan for the programming of a mechanism (as a computer)", does HTML program a mechanism?

'Sure, the main portion of the "code" lies within the web browser, but without the HTML instructions to interpret and display, the browser by itself cannot work.', yet remove the hyper, which is the link part, and the markup language, and the web browser is perfectly happy displaying text.... (HTML: Hyper Text Markup Language). Not to mention many other file formats, which I won't go into, because I want to change focus to something cool... I used to embed web browser modules, right into Windows C language applications. Basically, I would dedicate the embedded web browser to only load my website...

And, then the program would do whatever else I programmed it to do.

I'm still studying your excellent, interesting theory. Keep developing that theory, it's good stuff... I like it. Thanks for that, my friend! I am willing to keep an open mind.

Data asked, "Who can write a program in 1's and 0's ?"... I have, but for practical purposes... Assembly Language maps to op codes which are in hexadecimal, and by converting that to "1's and 0's" which is more time consuming but not too hard to do, it is interesting to see how closely related instructions come down to a binary flag. In other words, you can study the design of the low level programming. I apologize if this is not the best way to clearly discuss this topic. But, in practice it is not too bad. There are good utilities that are very helpful, and it is fun... To like, patch a program to make it do something else.

@Snowcrash:

Just for a point of interest... if elif else end, Conditional Comments

Reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conditional_comment

Code Select


<script>
/*@cc_on

  @if (@_jscript_version == 11)
    document.write("You are using IE11 with an older document mode");
  @elif (@_jscript_version == 10)
    document.write("You are using IE10");
  @elif (@_jscript_version == 9)
    document.write("You are using IE9");
  @elif (@_jscript_version == 5.8)
    document.write("You are using IE8");
  @elif (@_jscript_version == 5.7 && window.XMLHttpRequest)
    document.write("You are using IE7");
  @elif (@_jscript_version == 5.6 || (@_jscript_version == 5.7 && !window.XMLHttpRequest))
    document.write("You are using IE6");
  @elif (@_jscript_version == 5.5)
    document.write("You are using IE5.5");
  @elif (@_jscript_version < 5.5)
    document.write("You are using a version older than IE5.5");
  @else
    document.write("You are using an unknown version of IE");
  @end
 
@*/
</script>

Your point is still valid... There is no conditional branching in HTML.
However, this is good content to consider for our discussion.

Code Select


<!--[if gt IE 6]><!-->
This code displays on non-IE browsers and on IE 7 or higher.
<!--<![endif]-->

8pla.net · July 05, 2016, 07:30:36 AM

Code Select


linux@console:~$ mkdir ~/public_html
linux@console:~$ cd ~/public_html
linux@console:~/public_html$ php -S localhost:8000

PHP 5.4.6-1ubuntu1.8 Development Server started at Tue Jul  5 12:21:49 2016
Listening on http://localhost:8000
Document root is /home/human/public_html
Press Ctrl-C to quit.

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