Carl2 was asking about a build with M.2 support, so here is one, no I'm not being funny, this would make a great little PC :)
So build 1:
Only going to post Mobo, CPU, RAM and SSD.
Mobo ASUS Z97-P $89
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813132229R (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813132229R)
CPU Intel Core i3-4330 $135
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116945 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116945)
RAM CORSAIR Vengeance 8GB (2 x 4GB) $50
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820233144 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820233144)
SSD SAMSUNG SM951 M.2 128GB $130
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820147431 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820147431)
Total $404
Data,
First thanks for taking the time and nice of you to go with newegg, my #1 source for parts. It would be interesting to see how your configuration would work. Yesterday and today I've actually been doing the same thing but I have to spend a little time getting definitions for some different things like how many lanes does the CPU use.
Intel Core i7-5820K Haswell-E 6-Core 3.3GHz LGA 2011-v3 389 since it's only 50 more than a quad
MSI X99A Raider LGA 2011-v3 Intel 199
MSI GeForce GTX 960 GTX 960 4GD5T OC 4GB 229
SAMSUNG SM951 M.2 256GB PCI-Express 3.0 219
CORSAIR Vengeance LPX 16GB (4 x 4GB) 119
1155
seems we still need a case, power supply, dvd, I don't have a monitor for it or even a place to put it
Carl2
Your bits look good Carl2, should all work together, I think the RAM you chose is DDR4 which is correct for that Mobo.
I found this interesting video, shows some benchmarks of the M.2 speeds and I learnt something too, the Z97 chipset will only really reach about double the speed of SATA because the M.2 slot is only PCIe 2 where as on the X99 the slot is PCIe 3.
The guy doesn't like the word bottleneck either, he says it's noob talk but he does like to say 'MegaBits' most of the time when it's actually MegaBytes. I guess no one is perfect.
Anyway check out some of these speeds :o
! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMViUkgDeaY#)
Watched the video twice, have to look again latter, I'm still thinking PCI while he is talking the M.2, but I did go back and look at the MSI again
"1 x M.2 port, supports up to 32Gb/s speed**" and then
"** Intel RST does not support PCIe M.2 SSD with Legacy ROM."
Only 12 products offered, Intel has nothing showing yet. In case you need some reading material
http://www.anandtech.com/show/8426/the-intel-haswell-e-cpu-review-core-i7-5960x-i7-5930k-i7-5820k-tested (http://www.anandtech.com/show/8426/the-intel-haswell-e-cpu-review-core-i7-5960x-i7-5930k-i7-5820k-tested)
Forgot the cooling
Carl2
Quote from: Carl2 on August 31, 2015, 22:23:06 PM
"1 x M.2 port, supports up to 32Gb/s speed**"
That is correct, as long as the mobo has "M.2 port, supporting up to 32Gb/s" it will give you the full speed of these new SSD's.
This isn't really anything to do with the CPU, it's the PCIe which is controlled by the motherboard. There are limitations when you want more than one graphics card but as you will only be wanting one graphics card it will all work fine on any of the CPU's that fit in the X99 motherboard :thumbsup:
I'm seeing differences in how the data is specified between the M.2 and the PCI Express 3. The M.2 says 540Mbs and the PCI says 2150 Mbs.
I don't think they would be introducing new motherboards and all if there wasn't some reason for improvement. I'm still thinking the majority of the people I know just buy a laptop with a standard hard drive. It's all still pretty new but a 6 core is now within reach, and a move to water cooling. Don't think you'd be able to buy this type of setup.
Freddy seems to be the closest to trying this out, see if you can get him to make a video of a boot up.
Carl2
Carl2
The M.2 port supports both SATA 540MBs and PCIe 2150 MBs, just make sure you by the PCIe version of the SSD and you will be good to go at full speed, it's really that simple. :)
Obviously you will need an X99 chipset motherboard.
Is this a 'B' 'b' thing? (bytes, bits)
540MBs = 4320Mbs
Snowy I'm trying to help Carl2 here if you would be so kind.
QuoteThe Samsung SM951 is currently available in three capacities, 128GB, 256GB, and 512GB. In terms of speeds, the 128GB can provide up to 2,050MB/s read and 600MB/s write
http://www.thessdreview.com/our-reviews/samsung-sm951-m-2-pcie-ssd-review-512gb/ (http://www.thessdreview.com/our-reviews/samsung-sm951-m-2-pcie-ssd-review-512gb/)
I read more. Ignore my comment.
And wow. Impressive data rates. Interesting article.
Quote from: Carl2 on September 01, 2015, 13:14:20 PM
Freddy seems to be the closest to trying this out, see if you can get him to make a video of a boot up.
Carl2
I'm close but have yet to try the cigar. I'm saving for a GPU at the moment.
Saving, I was going to say this is a nation of credit but your in England.
Meant as a joke, I came across 2 gaming computers 1800 and 2000 yesterday, 6 cores with the X99 Intel chipset. There are more motherboards and more computers today. An 8 core going for 4000. Must be quite the computer, I'm wondering why you're not going with the Dual GPU but then again it might cut down on the speed of the SSD.
Carl2
This topic got split to here : How green are we ? (http://www.datahopa.co.uk/forum/pc-hardware/re-pc-build-with-m-2-support/msg27634)
Quoting Data to get back on topic....
QuoteBringing this back on topic.
Average power consumption of these new M.2 SSD's is around 4.7 Watts but they can peak to a massive 7.2 under full load :o
A lot has gone on while I was at Toms hardware, interesting article about the power and temps the gpus. I also spent a little time looking at computer cases and also found we can use the pci express SSD's with the older computers although the newer motherboards offer the best speeds. Actually looking for a case with a card reader for the camera and I do need a new camera. It's hard to believe a new computer now cost more than I paid for a brand new car I purchased so many years ago.
Carl2
Finishing up my list of items to purchase and I took a look at the desktops being sold again and ran across a Cyberpower with the six core CPU, selling for about 1000 which is 500 less than my build. the motherboard uses the Intel x99 chipset. Hopefully Data will explain what
PCI Slots (Available/Total) (3/4) PCI-E x16 (Gen 3)
(2/3) PCI-E x1 (Gen 3)
(1/1) PCI
The above means
there is no mention of the M.2 and I'm not sure if we have full use of a PCI E for a PCI SSD.
Carl2
Carl2 could you post a link to the PC, I will have a closer look if that's possible.
Data,
I had meant to do that, I began looking at cases, dvd's and a card reader. Here is the link: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883230013 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883230013)
after a good nights sleep I think it means 3 of the total 4 PCI E 3 slots are available. Rather be sure though.
Here is a gadget since I do like the card readers
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA5XU1Y30091&cm_re=computer_internal_card_reader-_-9SIA5XU1Y30091-_-Product (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA5XU1Y30091&cm_re=computer_internal_card_reader-_-9SIA5XU1Y30091-_-Product)
It also monitors the temp which I'm concerned about, I'd chosen water cooling while they must be going with air cooling.
Carl2
I see that the PC has the same graphics card as me and I have to say it's been perfectly stable and runs all my games in 1080 very well :thumbsup:
AMD Radeon R9 270 2GB
Been trawling around the web for full motherboard specifications and I can't find them, this is the problem with pre builds, all it says is X99, we need to know the make and model. I can't stress this enough, the mobo is the most important part of the PC.
You would be ok to add a PCIe to M.2 expansion card but I believe you would need the 8 core CPU to get the full speed out of it because of the lanes issue, I can't be sure because again we are not being given full specs.
In a perfect world you should have the M.2 slot on the motherboard really, you could post a question on the sites in the Q&A tab on this page:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883230013 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883230013)
And ask if it has an M.2 slot, if it doesn't I would look for one that does.
Data
They have 10 or so models with the 5820 CPU listed at various prices at Newegg. The cyberpower website is not showing the 1000 dollar model, and it starts with a 1289 that is using a MSI X99S SLI Krait motherboard Link http://www.cyberpowerpc.com/category/gaming-pcs/ (http://www.cyberpowerpc.com/category/gaming-pcs/)
a quick look and it seems you can customize everything, case, gpu motherboard
just did a google search for it and it is not to be found, tried support a phone number is given and also a login forum.
Carl2
OK, that motherboards looks nice to me and it does have M.2 slot :thumbsup:
http://www.msi.com/product/mb/X99S-SLI-Krait-Edition.html#hero-overview (http://www.msi.com/product/mb/X99S-SLI-Krait-Edition.html#hero-overview)
Love the case on this one : http://www.cyberpowerpc.com/system/CyberPower_X99_Configurator (http://www.cyberpowerpc.com/system/CyberPower_X99_Configurator)
8)
The lower priced does not mention a M.2 adaptor, but the higher priced pc says it has one. Since the lower priced can not be found on their website we can only guess about it. I'm thinking of going into the pci slot anyways, why not.
I've already got enough led lights not to mention the bulbs in the celling lighting fixtures.
Carl2
Quote from: Carl2 on September 03, 2015, 15:15:03 PM
I'm thinking of going into the pci slot anyways, why not.
I can think of a few reasons.
You will have 2 lots of connections that could get dirty over time, first the PCIe to the motherboard and then the M.2 to PCIe, using an M.2 socket on the motherboard is more direct.
Heat, putting the M.2 in a PCIe will place it closer to the hot graphics card.
If you are going to do this with a new PC you should really consider doing it the modern way, adding in a PCIe card is really for older motherboards that are not compatible with M.2.
In for a penny in for a pound :)
Yeah I would agree on the heat thing - I don't like having any PCI slots used, I worry too much about the GPU getting too warm. I have a chassis fan blowing air onto the GPU as well as the fans on it.
I'm jumping around and was able to find the pic of the M.2 in SSD's and it is located on the motherboard. I'm thinking my use of the computer is not hard at all on the gpu, maybe it gets warm. I began wondering what I could do with the HP PCIE bus, I know HP has there MB made for them by another unknown company, it would be the quickest way to try this out and since it has no M.2 it's PCI. The HP is 2 yrs old wonder what the buss speed is. The CPU is i7 4470 which takes a LGA 1150 MB On the MB's ( at Newegg and not the HP MB ) shown there is the 6 Gbs and a z97 and z87, all have PCI Express 3.0 x16.
Here are some links on what is going on http://www.goplextor.com/Product/Detail/M6e_M.2_2280#/Review (http://www.goplextor.com/Product/Detail/M6e_M.2_2280#/Review)
also
http://www.modders-inc.com/kingston-hyperx-predator-pcie-ssd/ (http://www.modders-inc.com/kingston-hyperx-predator-pcie-ssd/)
I read some of the reviews about the higher priced 5820 and I'm not impressed by what I read.
Hope what I wrote makes sense, what do you think?
Carl2
Got any links to the reviews on the 5820 ?
I'm running a 5820K at 4GHz and it's really fast. Doing the same renders as compared to my old 4 core, the 5820K is much faster.
We did some benchmarks a few weeks back, this is mine....
http://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/327811 (http://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/327811)
Very good reviews for the 5820, here is the link to newegg
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117402 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117402)
I'm looking at motherboards and now that I think of it I should be looking at this gateway and not the HP. Must be bored both computers do very well but I find it very interesting.
I never did much on OC, probably used to reading the specs and working within there limits. I think I saw some reviews where people got it up to 4.4 so you should be fine. Sounds like a very nice rig with the bench marks to prove it, wish you the best of luck with it
Carl2
Quote from: Freddy on September 03, 2015, 23:22:42 PM
I'm running a 5820K at 4GHz and it's really fast. Doing the same renders as compared to my old 4 core, the 5820K is much faster.
We did some benchmarks a few weeks back, this is mine....
http://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/327811 (http://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/327811)
Yes that really is a mighty benchmark score, them renders must fly 8)
I know you pay a lot of money for the unlocked K type CPU's but if you want to clock your rig up then there is no other serious option at the moment.
I've been clocking computers since the 90's, both CPU's and GPU's, it can be a lot of fun but you do need to know what you are doing. It's is a lot easier these days with the nice motherboards available - the good ones have built in overclock settings.
I do more under-clocking than over-clocking these days, many of the games I play don't really need the GPU and VRAM running at top speed, I can normally run them at about 50% to save power and reduce heat production.
There is no point overclocking unless you really need to, the power consumption starts to increase and the CPU is less efficient, yeah it's faster but can take a lot more power on full load. 4Ghz sounds like a nice sweet spot to me.
If we forget money then them X99 rigs with 6 or 8 core CPU's and their quad channel RAM are the way to go, now add to that a full speed M.2 port and you could rule the world :D
Quote from: Carl2 on September 04, 2015, 01:47:46 AM
I never did much on OC, probably used to reading the specs and working within there limits. I think I saw some reviews where people got it up to 4.4 so you should be fine. Sounds like a very nice rig with the bench marks to prove it, wish you the best of luck with it
Carl2
I'd read 4.3GHz in a few places, had not seen 4.4 yet :D
Renders do fly, especially the old renderer. To get the some of my results on my old PC would have taken a much longer time.
It is a lot of money, but I think it was worth it.
What I like about the OC is it only goes to 4Ghz when it needs to and I think (from watching CPUz) that when it's slower it underclocks.
Add the two new monitors to my system and I have something I always wanted and drooled over ;D
Quote from: Freddy on September 04, 2015, 11:34:40 AM
What I like about the OC is it only goes to 4Ghz when it needs to and I think (from watching CPUz) that when it's slower it underclocks.
It is a valid point.
" unlocked K type CPU's "I've seen that somewhere and had no Idea what they were talking about. I had just recalled a motherboard where you clicked on something and it would run through a process to overclock things, must be old technology.
Seems like it would cost about 1000 to update the Gateway for a 5820, I also noticed the Samsung SSD's are M.2 while Intel's are meant for the PCI e slot and are larger and cost more.
Carl2
Overclocking used to be done by increasing the bus speed on the motherboard, that would then in-turn speed up the CPU, RAM and other components on the motherboard, which made it harder to get the PC stable.
Now it's mostly done by increasing the multiplier on the CPU and leaving the bus alone. The K type CPU's have no limit to the amount of multiplier you can give them, they are unlocked. None K types always have a limit to the multiplier and its normally around 3.6 to 3.8Ghz.
I wonder if the SSD slow down effect is less of a problem with the M.2.
http://www.howtogeek.com/165542/why-solid-state-drives-slow-down-as-you-fill-them-up/ (http://www.howtogeek.com/165542/why-solid-state-drives-slow-down-as-you-fill-them-up/)
They recommend not going above 75% - which I have not done yet anyway and I don't notice any slow downs.
My best guess.
I should think the slow down problem will still be there on these new SSD's, they will still have to erase any data in the block before it could get written to. However as they are so much faster to start with the problem would be less noticeable.
Also:
You don't really notice the SSD slow down when reading from the disk it only seems to effect writing speeds.
I had tried posting earlier and when I hit post I lost the web page. I tried connecting again and was unable to. Anyways prices continue dropping for the SSD's I'm buying 250 Gb so there shouldn't be any problems with filling the drive. I did have a 120 Gb Intel that was loaded and didn't notice any difference in performance.
Carl2
Carl2
Sorry about the lost connection to the site, it is a long way from the sites server to you, something like 3000 miles, I think.
You don't really notice when the drives slow down but if you run a benchmark on them you can see the speed starts to reduce as they get full up.
Windows 10 has a really nice disk optimiser built in that performs TRIM on SSD's and defrag on HDD's, if we keep the SSD's trimmed it should help to stop the slow downs. To be fair I don't think the TRIM in Win 7 was all that good.
I just run TRIM on my SSD's and took a screenshot, it wasn't easy doing the screen shot because it takes less than a second to TRIM, but I managed it.
[attachment deleted by admin]
The first thing I noticed was the M.2 support at the top, I'm in win 8.1 and can't find that. But I think I tried it in win 10. I've got 3 drives, Intel 160 with win 10. 120 Intel with win 8.1 32 Gb used after win 8.1 install and 79 Gb free. It takes a while for the Intel tool to work and it only works for Intel SSD's. Also the Kingston storage drive 60 Gb that holds the passwords
Seems the least expensive way to go is an upgrade kit, 5820, Asus Mb,
and 16 Gb mem. Not sure if you need a newer PS and the mother b is talking USB 3.1. The Gateway is getting older but for me it's still quick enough, all the SSD's must Gen 1, the CPU i7-950 3.06GHz is no longer sold. There price is 870 and my price for 3 parts is 708, great review for the MSI board so I'll stick with it. No rush now I've already got a backup computer, wait till things settle down and maybe prices will go down. Have to see how Freddy does on the M.2 which is probably what I will use now.
Carl2
If PS is Power Supply then you can find a few calculators online. I used this one : http://outervision.com/power-supply-calculator (http://outervision.com/power-supply-calculator)
I didn't need a new one myself, I had quite a beefy one that I bought as a long term cunning plan.
What MSI MB have you got your eye on ?
I do use PS for power supply, not much on typing. I'd gone with a 650 W PS and the recommendation is for 408 W, I'm not sure how many watts the Gateway now has in it but actually I'm concerned about the pins which I believe change from time to time, but I could be wrong on that.
This is what I have so far
9-1-15
Intel Core i7-5820K Haswell-E 6-Core 3.3GHz LGA 2011-v3 389
MSI X99A Raider LGA 2011-v3 Intel 199
MSI GeForce GTX 960 GTX 960 4GD5T OC 4GB 229
SAMSUNG SM951 M.2 256GB PCI-Express 3.0 219
CORSAIR Vengeance LPX 16GB (4 x 4GB) 119
Antec EarthWatts EA-650 75
Intel BXTS13X Water/Liquid 80
I'm going with water cooling and it's been in use long enough so it should be reliable, you'll notice I stuck with Intel, has very good reviews. I'm very concerned about fitting everything inside the case.
Carl2
That all looks nice Carl2.
I'm not sure why you would need that graphics card, it's really meant for gaming and as you are not much of a gamer, to my mind it's overkill.
I can't help thinking something like this would be easily fast enough for you.
http://www.ebuyer.com/652164-msi-gt-730-oc-2gb-ddr3-vga-dvi-hdmi-pci-e-graphics-card-n730k-2gd3-oc (http://www.ebuyer.com/652164-msi-gt-730-oc-2gb-ddr3-vga-dvi-hdmi-pci-e-graphics-card-n730k-2gd3-oc)
Yes looks nice :)
I got a Zalman cooler for the CPU in the end.
If you're worried about that all fitting in the case then measure up first, especially the GPU.
The trickiest part was the cooler I found but it wasn't too bad.
Data, got to admit you are probably right, nice price you've found also. Guess I went with 4 Gb because that is what the HP has, just realized the gateway has only I Gb mem now, thought it was 2, it's a GeForce GTX 285 and I can't complain. Thinking this is for the future and should at least be as good as the HP and preferably better. Maybe I'll play with Daz again in the future and that depends on what Freddy shows me although I'm trying not to pressure him.
There is Freddy now, a Zalman cooler and so far I'm going with water because of spacing and it's said basically the CPU will be cooler according to reviews. I've heard of people buying the gpu's and not having them fit in, as you say measurements. You haven't mentioned it so I am guessing the motherboards USB 3.1 works with the cases USB 3 output. No rush, lots of options in the planning of this. I was really thinking about slipping a PCI E SSD into one of the computers to try it out but that is not possible.
Carl2
Carl2
I just didn't want you to spend more money then you really needed to, also bear in mind that new technology is coming to graphics cards soon with High Bandwidth Memory (HBM). It might be wise to spend less now then further down the line get a more modern card. With PC's we build ourselves we have that luxury.
The only time I've seen water cooling to be worthwhile is in gamer rigs with 1 or 2 GeForce graphics cards (they tend to run hotter than the AMDs).
Even then, they water cool the graphics cards only or graphics and CPU. Not CPU only.
If it's in a hot environment then money on AC would be better for the user too.
I've seen my water cooler doing a good job. When I render for 20 minutes or more with CPU on 100% all cores it keeps it really cool. I don't believe my old air cooler could have done that but I can't prove it.
So Freddy is using a Zalman cooler and I have chosen Intel, I've got good and bad reviews about both coolers, worst is both have the cooler stopped after 2 years time. Seems it would be nice to have a reserve tank like we do in a car and some thing to indicate the water level. It should be easy enough to do that. I wouldn't mind if they gave you a cooper block that you could put an air cooler on the other side.
Carl2
To be honest I wouldn't expect much more than a couple of years life for those. I suppose the best thing to do is keep an eye on temps - then when in the future it doesn't seem to be working replace it. Two years is roughly my cycle on major upgrades anyway.
The thing that concerns me is leakage... but in for a penny in for a pound.
Quite a few years ago I had a marine aquarium tank, and naturally it needed a pump to circulate the water, I'd say the pump lasted at least 5 years without a problem, not sure what happened to it but never a problem or leak. The aquarium pump is 24/7 where as the water cooler is about 5 hrs / day for me. Those prices I'd expect min of 5 hopefully 10 yrs. I'd make on with a cooper block, cooper pipe, and water circulator outside the case before I'd put up with that bs. Anyways I suspect some type of abuse or misuse is the cause of a majority of the problems. You probably didn't notice but the "STW 5.25" 6 in 1 USB card reader $38 also has a probe to monitor temps, I think the Bios also has a temp setting for the CPU and will shut down if exceeded.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Order=BESTMATCH&Description=STW+5.25%22+6+in+1+USB+card+reader&N=-1&isNodeId=1 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Order=BESTMATCH&Description=STW+5.25%22+6+in+1+USB+card+reader&N=-1&isNodeId=1)
The link is for monitoring 2 temps $47 the one I mentioned above is for 1 probe $37
Carl2
What I've played with uses a 5.25 bay water reservoir similar to this one (http://www.ebuyer.com/661093-alphacool-repack-single-laing-d5-dual-5-25-bay-station-reservoir-15171-1) but 1 bay not 2.
That way you can see the water and the flow. And if you want fancy, you can get UV pipes (http://www.ebuyer.com/662952-masterkleer-tubing-pvc-13-10mm-3-8-59119) and put a UV LEDs in it.
Thanks for trying to help I think I let myself get upset with this liquid cooling. Worst part is I remember making a cold plate ages ago out of a copper or brass block, drilled a series of holes and plugged and soldered all but the inlet and outlet for water flow. I did run across some brushless motors used for the circulation pump which I'd put outside of the case which only leaves a cold plate inside the case
I keep seeing reviews for the liquid coolers saying they are failing.
Carl2
Nevermind, I often get upset :LOL:
You may well be right about the drawbacks Carl, I just thought I'd give it a try and see, hopefully I won't regret it.
Speaking as one who uses liquid cooling, I'd prefer to opt for a solution that comes pre-plumbed and sealed at the factory. This doesn't prevent leaks, mind you, but it does reduce the risk considerably.
This is what I'm using:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835181089&cm_re=liquid_cooling-_-35-181-089-_-Product (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835181089&cm_re=liquid_cooling-_-35-181-089-_-Product)
Dave
I believe you are in the majority, liquid cooling is new to me and possibly it has progressed in ways I'm not used to. To me a solid copper cold plate with an inlet and outlet for water ( a nonconductive fluid would be better ) , move the pump towards the radiator and place them outside the case.
I've actually started looking at the air cooling and just started finding some made for the motherboard, next is to check the sizes available in the case.
Carl2
I've found a lot of good videos on youtube, a good one that I like is the 5820 vs the 4670K, the link : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytFskvhTNJo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytFskvhTNJo)
seems the 5820 is a power hog, it also has a slower boot time.
Also got and ad from HP, they are selling a 5820 compute for about 1100.
Carl2
Carl2 I've moved your post to this thread.
Yes me and Freddy have seen that video and debated the results.
The guy is mostly talking about gaming performance and the i5 ( 4670K ) is really the CPU of choice, without doubt better value for money for games. But games don't really use any more than 4 cores yet.
It comes down to what you want to do with the CPU, Freddy does renders with it and uses all the 6 cores so for him it faster than an i5.
Of course 5820k will take more power because it has 2 more cores and more cache too.
Don't forget the 5820k runs on the X99 chipset which has quad channel DDR4 memory, quad channel RAM is faster than dual channel but the software you run must be able to take advantage of quad channel memory. Games probably don't take much advantage of it.
The fastest booting computers I have seen were i3's on micro ATX motherboards with nice SSD's. Faster than i5's and i7s. With an i3 on a micro ATX board there is less hardware to detect and then install drivers for on boot.
Remember the first post I made on the M.2 thread I started, it used an i3, I posted that for a reason :)
http://www.datahopa.co.uk/forum/pc-hardware/pc-build-with-m-2-support/ (http://www.datahopa.co.uk/forum/pc-hardware/pc-build-with-m-2-support/)
It's horses for courses, what are you going to do with your PC.
Data,
Frist I'd rather think we are discussing a topic and not having a debate. My main reason for pulling in the video was with respect to cooling the cpu since that is what I'm concerned about at this time. I'm also concerned about boot time and would like to try out the M.2 and wished he had talked in more detail about how the drive was hooked up.
I'm pretty sure this computer spends most of it's time idling and unless something unusual comes up the following computers will probably be pretty much the same.
Carl2
My apologies Carl2, I will try not to use the word debate in the future when communicating with you.
I see no reason why we can't discuss the cooling requirements of an M.2 PC build in this thread though.
Quote from: Carl2 on September 14, 2015, 12:47:10 PM
I'm also concerned about boot time and would like to try out the M.2 and wished he had talked in more detail about how the drive was hooked up.
Sometimes people can make the mistake of thinking a faster CPU will make a quicker booting PC, these days it is not the case, boot time is more down to the amount of hardware in the PC, graphics cards, drives, soundcards etc.
The fastest booting systems are those with on board graphics, on board sound cards and less drives. Which is why an i3 with all onboard hardware can boot so fast with an SSD.
The chap in that video doesn't seem to grasp that, nor does he really consider that faster clock speed of the i5 running at 4.6Ghz vs the i7 at 4.2Ghz or consider the X99 form factor is not the same as the i5 iether but I was building computers when he was about 8 years old. :)
Data,
I don't want to make a big deal over your choice of words, but I did see something about saving energy between you and Freddy I think I decided I don't want to get involved. I actually moved to liquid cooling because it was no longer about the M.2 but I do jump all over the place depending on what I'm thinking about at the time. I've had my share of talking to people who should be able to supply a solution but were unable to.
I just received a promo code 15 % that can be applied to the discounted price of 1,199 for the HP 5820. Sounds good but after looking at the the motherboard in the last HP it looks like they did a lot of skimping 1 full Pic ex for a video card and 3 very small x1 slots. 2 slots for memory.
Carl2
Yes indeed we have to be careful with the motherboards on these pre built PC's. I have found some of them don't have a make or model number, we don't know who made them or where to get BIOS up-dates or support if needed.
This is probably one of the biggest reasons why I prefer to build my own PCs. Even if you went with Dell or HP, you sometimes don't know what you're getting with regard to the discrete parts that make up the PC. It's not as common anymore, but not all that long ago a Gateway computer would contain proprietary motherboards, RAM, etc., And finding replacements for it without having to pay an arm and leg through Gateway was a nightmare. Granted, Gateway is just one company among dozens, but they're not the only example of proprietary equipment being difficult to obtain. Not to mention that trying to upgrade this equipment is also problematical at best; limited expansion slots can sometimes be a pain in the bum.
Gateway is now owned by Acer and Acer started out with a terrible reputation, cheap computers with problems but Acer survived and was able to buy Gateway which is no longer making gaming computers.
The HP was assembled and shipped from Mexico. Both were sold with very large hard drives which I converted to SSD's.
I've done the build yourself with the full towers and found I can buy the assembled computer for less but again as you see there is a cost to me.
I just took a look at a motherboard and came across this, 1 x M.2 port, supports M.2 SATA 6Gb/s module* or M.2 PCIe module up to 32Gb/s speed** ** Intel RST does not support PCIe M.2 SSD with Legacy ROM.
Not sure what that means. I was actually looking for something that would indicate if the motherboard supports dual boot.
Carl2
Carl2 in computer terms "Legacy" means old hardware.
So Legacy ROM would be an old CD or DVD drive, if you connect one it would disable the modern buses and set everything to old school speeds.
Simple answer, don't connect anything old to the new build.
The dual boot issue is not related to the motherboard so would be fine.
Also, I don't know if you have looked at this post I made for you regarding cooling.
http://www.datahopa.co.uk/forum/pc-hardware/liquid-cooling/msg27867/?topicseen#new (http://www.datahopa.co.uk/forum/pc-hardware/liquid-cooling/msg27867/?topicseen#new)
Data,
I had seen that very reasonable prices for something that should do the job, made for the motherboard. Spending a bit of time thinking about water cooling, cooper stock 17, Water pump, 35 ( one of the best names ) Radiator 43 = 95 dollars, it keeps it cooler, it's smaller. Maybe just buy a liquid cooler set up and use the mounting hardware radiator and fan, 116 dollars. It will never leak and the pump will last forever. A few things like the over flow tank and a water level gauge to be added. Build a computer, build a water cooler is even simpler.
Carl2
I have finally found a water cooler that I like,
http://www.corsair.com/en-us/hydro-series-h80i-gt-high-performance-liquid-cpu-cooler-cn (http://www.corsair.com/en-us/hydro-series-h80i-gt-high-performance-liquid-cpu-cooler-cn)
5 year warranty, made for the 2011-3, 109.99 USD
It is selling at Newegg for 89 but with a 2 yr warranty with an option to buy a longer warranty. Tiger direct offers the 5 yr warranty for 109. It also comes with software to monitor the fans ect.
Even though it's a sealed unit I feel it's something I could live with. Makes me think of the automotive sealed bearings, good for the lifetime, when it goes that's the end of the lifetime.
Carl2
Looks like a nice cooling system, should do the job with plenty of potential for overclocking.
One step closer :)
That looks like a newer version of what I'm using, Carl. I'm very satisfied with mine, and have no complaints with it. :thumbsup:
Thanks for putting that in Dave, I started reading the reviews and it is really hard to judge from them. Some say the fan noise is quite and some say it's noisy, a few with noise from the pump. Also a few people are having problems with the software to monitor the cooling setup.
It's nice to get caught up with the new technology, lots of new things being made.
Carl2
With my current setup, the noisiest fans are on my graphics cards, followed by the case fan. the cooler fans are nearly silent, and the pump makes no noise whatsoever. The whole thing makes about 30db of sound, so that's pretty darned silent, all told. :D
I've never been able to judge decibels, I assume you must have a meter Dave or do you have superman's hearing ? ;)
Carl, I found negatives and positives about my cooler too, I started reading the negative reviews first, Dave suggested that some time ago, so thanks to him. It helps find the things you really can't live with.
That cooler you have shown seems good to me, the guarantee is nice to have. Looks chunky.
Quote from: Freddy on September 19, 2015, 22:31:52 PM
I've never been able to judge decibels, I assume you must have a meter Dave or do you have superman's hearing ? ;)
lol no super hearing here, I'm afraid. In fact, just the opposite. After working on cars for so many years without using ear protection, I've developed a condition called Nerve Deafness (AKA Machine Shop Ears) which has made certain frequencies of sounds inaudible to me. Add to that another affliction called Tinnitus (ringing of the ears) and it's even harder to hear certain sounds. The "ringing" (I'd describe it as more of a whistle, TBH) is with me 24/7, and can be quite annoying at times (like right now, for example).
As for a meter, I don't really need one. I just use this page (https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Technical/Sounds/Decibles.htm) to compare how loud things are with comparable sound levels. It's not "pinpoint accurate". but it's close enough. :)
Hmm, just writing a post when Dave put a post. Quick copy and paste.
Brief note on Db, it is a logarithm scale, 3 db would equal a doubling of sound and a doubling of sound would produce difference we could hear.
About all I can say is when my computer is on I can hear it. Thanks for the info Dave, it helps.
I'd actually wanted a single fan but to get the cold plate I liked I went with the dual fan, I guess you could put a switch on 1 fan if its to loud.
It seems Consair is trying to make improvements, they say they are using flexible tubing but there are still complaints it is to rigid
Anyways it looks sturdy and should keep the CPU cool, big thing is the warranty but they do not sell to the public.
Dave sounds like you are spending to much time with the doctors, my cousin who had a long series of problems spent the majority of his time at doctors appointments. Have a nice day, if the ringing stops you'll have a little peace and quite.
Freddy I checked out Daz, seems like they have software for Physics and something for deforming soft body parts.
Carl2
A friend of mine that builds PC's recently did a Skylake i5 with an M.2, no other drives or cards were connected, using everything on-board. He reported that the PC was super quick in operation, booting and shutdown.
Nothing else to report but I thought I would post.
At least he got to try out the M.2, most people I know go for the i5 which is quick enough without even a SSD and meets their needs. I had some spare time and stopped at Best Buy to look at things, I did run across 1 i7 computer the rest were i5's and i3's. It's nice to see windows in the tablets, think I'd prefer that to the android system. Smart watches and Smart TV's.
Carl2