Datahopa

I thought it was time to have a look at Windows 8, a friend of mine has a pre beta version running on a laptop and has given me some feedback of what to expect.

I have also been watching a few videos about it and I think I have a pretty good understanding of the new features, so cutting through all the hype here are my pointers.


Windows 8 is in many ways Windows 7 but it also has a new GUI interface that can be turned off, making your PC much the same as Windows 7 or turned on to use your computer with the new tiles option.

Microsoft are going down the apps route, making it easier to make apps in Windows that will run in the new tile GUI. (Could be interesting to play with)

Windows 8 is even more reliant on the graphics card than 7 is, which could help speed up and smooth out the whole windows experience.

As far as I can tell that's about it.

Of course as I find out more info it could be added at a later date  ;).


Microsoft Reimagines Windows, Presents Windows 8 Developer Preview (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Hq95vtoS28#ws)

I'm still not sure about the GUI. I see they're trying to keep away from the square tile GUI of iOS and Android and on a big touch screen that's fine.

Buuuuut. Who wants to touch a monitor/TV? They're normally too far away and we have perfectly good keyboards and mice. When the screen gets smaller (3-4 inch smart phones) the big icons are a liability.

If they can crack compatibility from phones to gamers towers then it has plenty of potential. I also like the new ways of interfacing with your PC. Still not sure about talking to it, feels REALLY sad  :o but I do like the camera, movement devices. Swinging your arm/hand left/right to move between pages etc looks cool (think "Minority Report")

Just thinking and have this question...

Can you buy a touchscreen like device that just does the touch bit, to replace a mouse? All I've seen is those silly pads on laptops that freak out when they or you are warm.

Not ready to get rid of my XP, but I like the vice president very much.  8)

(sorry Mr. MS, coudn't resist)

Wouldn't you just know it? I get ready to upgrade my OS, and something newer and shinier comes along! :headbang:

Which reminds me; I'll be changing over from XP Pro to 7 Pro 64 (along with a RAM upgrade {6GB! WOOT!} and the addition of a shiny new 64GB SSD for the OS), probably next weekend, so I may not be around much. (I'm going to be playing heck, I'm sure, trying to figure out how many and which sorts of settings need to be tweaked in order to completely separate OS from data, from programs, and from games. XP takes 14-20 hours to fully customize, and I expect a whole new level of complexity with 7)

Very best of luck Dave, hopefully see you back in time for 2015 RWC.  :LOL:

Thanks for the vote of confidence, Diesel. :P

Your confidence and ability were never called into question, I apologise if you feel they have been, it just that I know how much fun setting up a new system can be.

Just teasing, Diesel. No worries. :) Let's not forget rule #1 for dealing with Dave:

NEVER take Dave seriously! :D

Good luck with that Dave.  I know what you mean, Windows 8 seems to have happened over night but it is a way off yet.  I really like W7 so I am not sure if I will even upgrade when it comes out this time around.  When W7 came out I got it cheap via a pre order. Oh who am I kidding, yes I will probably get it lol...

@ Dave Good luck with the rebuild and you are going for an SSD for the OS, can't wait to see your windows WEI score for the drive. 

You shouldn't have too much trouble installing your games, programs and documents onto another drive in W7, Its how I have mine set up.


Oh and I found out a couple of days ago that Windows 8 is going to have Microsoft Security Essentials installed as standard (out the box), at least that's what MS want to do, whether they will be allowed to put a free anti virus into the OS remains to be seen. I hope they do as I think MSE is one of the best Anti Viruses I've ever tried.   

That would be nice, as I agree with you about MSE. Better still would be to have W8 and MSE seamlessly integrated, as a part of the OS, but that's probably not going to happen. The major AV companies would cry and complain.

BTW, changing the OS to automatically use a different drive path for application installation is the easy part. It's when you try to move the "Documents and Settings" folder off-drive where it becomes a nightmare. I expect the AppData folder will be the same. The way I have XP set up, literally the only thing on the C drive is the core OS. All data (pictures, documents, etc.) is on the D drive, anything related to applications (including the Application Data folder) is on the E drive, all my web server data is on the F drive, and everything related to games (again, along with a "new" folder named "Game Data" {same function as the Application Data folder}) is located on the G drive. Given the literally weeks of research, experimentation, and System Restore use that it took to achieve this level of separation, I may choose to be a little less anal about things this time, but I still want to keep my data, apps and games on different drives. Depending on remaining space on the C drive, I may choose not to move folders around, as I did in XP (that really is a headache), I may just leave them in place, but "ghost" them to alternate drives. I'm also planning on using a 16GB thumb drive, mounted on an internal USB slot, as the swap file, since I've both read and seen that this can give a tremendous boost to performance over using an HDD. Too bad XP can't replicate this feature. :)

I would say don't bother with using a USB flash drive for the swap file, I have tried it and I think it actually slows down the PC, and the reason for that is the awful speed of USB 2 compared to SATA, if it was a USB 3 flash drive it would be so much better.

USB 2 maximum throughput is at best around 35MBs where as SATA 2 is at worst 150MBs and at best around 300MBs.

None of these speeds are set in stone but whatever way you look at it USB 2 is just too slow for the OS.

You have a point. Of course, I need to consider the limitations of my current setup, since most of it will not be changing, and this includes an ATA133 drive that I can't cycle out of use yet, and first gen SATA drives, rather than SATA 2.

I just ran a benchmark on the USB flash drives I currently have, and they're all topping out at 15MB/sec, which looks to be about standard for comparable drives. My ATA133 drive tests out at 48.7 MB/sec, and my fastest SATA drive runs at 84.6


I'm leery of using the SSD for the swap file, for two reasons. First, because I'm not sure of how much room will be taken up by Windows 7, and second, swap files see more disk activity than any other file in the system, and everything I've read about the technology behind SSD's indicates that a lot of constant access can reduce longevity by a significant amount. Perhaps that's different now, but I've not heard anything to the contrary.

You have a point about the SSD ageing and I know its sometimes described as a problem with them, but I can tell you I know a chap who has had one pretty well since they came out, so older technology type too, and his is still working fine, I guess nothing lasts for ever, so in time it will fail but if it only has the OS on then that wouldn't be too bad. 

If it was me Dave and I wanted to play safe, which I fully understand, I would put the swap file on the fastest HDD I have, it's going to be faster than USB2.

I may just do that, for now, and see how it goes. Maybe I'll save up my pennies, and pick up a small, cheap (relatively speaking) SSD later on, to see just how long they last. So far, I've seen reports of 10's - to 100's of thousands of read/write cycles for some brands of SSD's, but that really doesn't seem like all that much to me. If I understand it correctly, it's the writing that wears on them, but that's also what takes the most time on a standard drive,  so it's a "catch-22" situation, balancing speed with longevity. Dunno. I'll figure things out, I'm sure. :)

The Windows 8 beta or Consumer Preview is now available to download.

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-GB/windows-8/download (http://windows.microsoft.com/en-GB/windows-8/download)

Windows 8 pah, I'm well ahead of the game, I've got Windows 98.  :LOL:

I'm going to download it, and see what's what. Whether I install it or not, I'm still unsure.

"Here's what we found"

"27 of your apps and devices will work"
"5 items need your attention"

Quote
Need your attention
Microsoft Security Essentials
Microsoft Corporation
App won't work    :o
AMD Catalyst Install Manager
Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.
Reinstall it in Windows 8 Consumer Preview
ATI Catalyst Control Center *
Reinstall it in Windows 8 Consumer Preview
Dell Series Printer *
Reinstall it in Windows 8 Consumer Preview
Dell 968 AIO Printer
Dell Inkjet Drivers
Get updates from Windows Update

Will work
Adobe Flash Player 11 Plugin
Adobe Systems Incorporated
Adobe Reader X (10.1.2)
Adobe Systems Incorporated
Age of Empires Online
Microsoft Studios
Bryce 6.3
DAZ 3D
Bryce 7.1
DAZ 3D
Dropbox
Dropbox, Inc.
Google Chrome
Google Inc.
Google Earth
Google
Microangelo Toolset 6 (x64)
Impact Software
Microsoft .NET Framework 4 Client Profile
Microsoft Corporation
Microsoft Silverlight
Microsoft Corporation
Microsoft Visual C++ 2008 Redistributable - x64 9.0.21022
Microsoft Corporation
Safari
Apple Inc.
WinZip 16.0
WinZip Computing, S.L.
AMD High Definition Audio Device
Advanced Micro Devices
AMD High Definition Audio Device
Advanced Micro Devices
ASUS EAH5450 Series
Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.
ATI Radeon HD 4200
Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.
Dell E197FP
Dell Inc.
Dell ST2220M(Digital)
Dell Inc.
Generic PnP Monitor
(Standard monitor types)
HID-compliant mouse
Microsoft
High Definition Audio Device
Microsoft
Realtek RTL8168C(P)/8111C(P) Family PCI-E Gigabit Ethernet NIC (NDIS 6.20)
Realtek
USB 2.0 PC Cam
Microsoft
USB Mass Storage Device
Compatible USB storage device
USB Mass Storage Device
Compatible USB storage device

I understand that MSE is supposed to be built into Win 8, but the above just struck me as funny. :P

Yeah that is quite funny that MSE isn't compatible with Win 8, I run the setup check utility too and had the same results. 

To clarify a little, the utility checks your PC for windows 8 compatibility during an up-grade from Win 7 and not a clean install of Win 8 from a DVD.

Data says: if you are thinking of installing Win 8 then do a clean install to an empty partition on your drive  :thumbsup: 

Given the trials I had when installing 7 to my current setup, I'm VERY reluctant to go through that again quite so soon. I might be willing to toss it on my laptop, but I don't think I'll do that till after I get back from the Chatbots 3.2 conference on the 31st.

Just got this link from Duskrider
http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-13970_7-57387499-78/windows-8-apps-get-em-while-theyre-free/ (http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-13970_7-57387499-78/windows-8-apps-get-em-while-theyre-free/)

Does anyone have a list of these apps? I was going to w8 to try out windows 8 for I have a lot going on right now. But I would hate to have to kick myself in the rear for missing out on a good free app.

Quote from: sybershot on March 02, 2012, 18:09:33 PM
Does anyone have a list of these apps?

No sorry.



I don't have enough SSD space available to install win8, hmmm, and I don't want to install it on to an HDD.

Think I might be giving this beta a miss, not like me, I normally like to try them out. 

Will be following peoples vids of Win 8 on Youtube, there's normally quite a lot when a beta is released. 

I want to try it out just to see if I like it. If I do then I usually purchase the new os on release. But right now I am so swamped with work, I even had not had much time to do much to my website :'(  Also at this time I am lacking storage space, it is getting really tight. In order to install windows 8 I would have to back up data that is on one of my 4 os's. and if I do that I would be completely out of storage space. It is a big decision, and a tempting one.

I have been searching youtube and a few other sites as well. I have to admit I like what I been seeing.

Ok lets see, where do I start?
I have a big touchscreen with win7 someone gave me and I thought I'd try win8.  You don't need a touchscreen to use it. You still use it as normal.  Of course maybe it gives you a touchscreen, I don't know.  From the reading it looks like it.
I did the download, took maybe two hours for it to install.
It kept all my letters and programs and everything except it deleted my Microsoft security essentials and gave me Windows Defender instead.  
Some of the free apps I grabbed are Maps, solitaire,  pinball, videos,  flow,  puzzleTouch, camera, HiveMind,  Pirates love Daisies, NewsRepublic, train Titans, flipSaw, PhotoVault, YouCam,  AccuWeather,  Slacker Radio,  Forismatic,  Grantophone,  Chicago Tribune.    There's over a hundred offered.    
There were some "free as trial"  but I didn't mess with them.
The important thing to me is haptek, Sandee loves it.  She's her old self again.  She didn't love Win7 at all.  
Ops---just caught another change Anna voice don't work, we have Zira, new voice for win8

Thanks Duskrider  :thumbsup:

QuoteOf course maybe it gives you a touchscreen

No it does not turn a ordinary screen into a touch screen, virtually impossible.
I Started downloading it on my laptop, I will be overwriting my windows vista partition seeing that that os I did not have much to back up  :D

I have a Wacom tablet that I'm hoping will work with windows 8. seeing Wacom had a part in assisting windows 8 with the programing for the touch software, I'm hoping I will be able to use that to test out the touch features.

Quotetook maybe two hours for it to install.

dang my isp it says 4 hours total just to download  :(

QuoteThe important thing to me is haptek, Sandee loves it.  She's her old self again.  She didn't love Win7 at all. 

thanks for letting me know about this as well  8)  can't w8 to try haptek out.  I miss being able to use it, It's been so long

Just got back home, and files where finished downloaded. I'm gonna install it tomorrow. I'll be sure to keep you all posted.

Quote from: Duskrider on March 02, 2012, 19:24:12 PM
The important thing to me is haptek, Sandee loves it.  She's her old self again.  She didn't love Win7 at all.  

Interesting that haptek runs better in Win 8, does this mean its better at running older single core CPU applications I wonder.

I might just have to hunt out an old HDD and install Win 8 after all. 

I finished installation a little bit ago, I played around with it for a bit. I just restarted to test out boot time on a hhd, and now it is telling me my password is incorrect and cannot log back in  :'(

Edit: it changed my log in password to my E-mail password. As Trinity would say when I miss type something "that is not correct"

new article on my website about My Windows 8 Consumer Preview. More articles to follow in the days ahead. you can view the first one at the link below.
http://www.americanmadeweb.com/index.php/blog/tech/26-windows-8-consumer-preview (http://www.americanmadeweb.com/index.php/blog/tech/26-windows-8-consumer-preview)

update:
After installing win8 on win7 touchscreen i been told via popup each time i turn computer on that i must reinstall Catalyst control center.   
Sybershot sent me the link and i did so. 
This morning i turned it on, no popup. 
All is well.
I tried to also put win8 on win7 laptop and after 2 hours was told wouldn't install and was reverting back to win7.   
I'm thinking try again in couple days.

  I bought my two computers just as Win 7 came out, I bought them with Vista installed with a free upgrade to win 7.  Still working on getting Hal up to speed, I'm sure I'll be waiting for the final release before I think of going to win 8. 
Carl2

Glad to hear the link worked out for you Duskrider, Sorry to hear that you could not get windows 8 on the laptop.
If your that eager, I would try with a fresh install on a fresh partition.

Speech works extremely well with out any training. Also documents can be used now to improve speech recognition. Not sure if windows 7 has that feature, if so I never noticed. The first training sessions also had some improvements made.

Some people are installing Windows 8 as an up-garde over Win 7, there are a number of reasons why I think you shouldn't do that but I'm not going to go into them now.

So what should you do?

A dual boot with Win 7 and 8, that will allow you to have both win 7 and 8 on your PC at the same time and give you the option of booting into 7 or 8 at start-up.

This is how its done:

http://lifehacker.com/5840387/how-to-dual+boot-windows-7-and-windows-8-side-by-side (http://lifehacker.com/5840387/how-to-dual+boot-windows-7-and-windows-8-side-by-side)

Thanks for the link, Data. One of the comments suggested using VMware  to run Win 8 in a virtual machine environment. I've already got Ubuntu set up in this fashion on my laptop, so this is the way I'll probably go, but I'm still going to wait till April to do it. Just too many things going on right now.

There have been some issues with dual booting windows 7 and windows 8, just wanted to make you all aware of that.

I have dual booted them on my laptop, and came across this known issue. there are a couple of suggestions in the windows 8 Consumer Preview forum to fix it, and a couple different reasons for the conflict. However I have not tried to correct the issue myself just yet. If and when I do I will post my results.

I do know that if you select windows 7 and it does not load, just restart your pc and the restart changes the boot order enabling logging into windows 7 possible.

Been looking at some of the videos on Youtube about Windows 8, then I found this little gem.

How Real People Will Use Windows 8

How Real People Will Use Windows 8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4boTbv9_nU#ws)

Good find  :D

I been so busy I forgot to stop by chris pirillos site these last few weeks. That is definitely a good find Data.

I love the last comment.

"are they trying to drive me to Mac?"

Computers are getting more complicated but the O/S should be more intuitive and simple to use everyday. This is why touch screen phones and tablets are so popular (in part). Why put a graphic overlay on your O/S that most users already understand?

Think I'll stick with Win7.

Yeah the whole graphics overlay thing seems aimed at iPad type devices and probably is going to be used to good affect in them, but for the PC user I'm really not convinced it's wanted or needed.
 
Here is a follow on video from the last one, which interestingly says the same type of thing about the Win 8 experience.  

Windows 8 vs Mac OS X (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbjnbhWVN8c#ws)


EDIT:
So apart from the strange GUI what is really new and better in Win 8?
Why should I consider buying it when it's released?

Some answers can be found here:
http://www.lockergnome.com/windows/2012/03/09/five-big-changes-in-windows-8-to-benefit-desktop-users/ (http://www.lockergnome.com/windows/2012/03/09/five-big-changes-in-windows-8-to-benefit-desktop-users/)

Data, nice video by Cris and his Dad. I noticed when Cris asked his father what os for a desktop would you buy, price and programs was not a factor. If I decided to switch to a mac, it would cost me well over 15 thousand dollars  :o I have played with some older macs but not the newer os x and above, So I can't say which is better. but I can say I can't afford it

I would have to say, that for my desktop windows8 will not installed. I am quite happy with window7 for my desktop. The few features for the desktop that was added does not justify enough to make me want to switch.

However I was planning on getting a tablet for quite some time, I even concerned an Ipad3.  if it came with apples siri I was definitely going to buy it. But now if I do get get a tablet, I would definitely now go windows8 and install Ultra Hal.

I have window8 on my laptop, and to be honest it gets more use now seeing that it has windows8. Most of time on it is in the new metro area, So if I do not get a tablet I will get windows 8 for the laptop. But I would rather have a tablet for the same soul purpose that Cris's father stated convenience and mobility.

I've had win8 on large touchscreen since March 2nd.   
Until then it sat gathering dust.  I use it lot now and love it.
I tried to put win8 on win7 laptop twice.   Wouldn't go.  Gave up.
Haptek's much better on win8.
Sister has an ipad and loves it.  Similar to my win8 touch but smaller and portable.
Ipad looks like fun.   :banana:

Duskrider,
  Haptek on win 8, more details please.
Carl2

Update --------
I've had windows8 for two weeks and love it.
Then yesterday I was told a file was corrupt and windows was closeing. 
This happened like 3 times last night. 
But won't tell me what file ????
Of course win8 is a free beta etc etc.
I did scan disk, and also registry repair....   No effect.   
Ok, gonna reinstall win8 right over two week old win8.
***************
I did the reinstall, no problems now. 
This time I didn't put in all the free extra apps.
Possibly one of them was the corrupt file, I don't know.
But best apps are already in the win8 and have decided I'm satisfied with them.
This computer is large touch screen that had win7.
Haptek operates on this touch win8 smoothly like on XP.   
Carl, check with others with Win8, this computer may be different than others.   

I wonder what caused that file corruption  :scratch-head:

It would have been a good chance to try the new Windows 8 "Refresh your PC" option, it's like system restore but apparently better at reverting your PC to a new and working state.   

Here is a bit about it:
http://www.addictivetips.com/windows-tips/how-to-refresh-or-reset-your-windows-8-pc-complete-guide/ (http://www.addictivetips.com/windows-tips/how-to-refresh-or-reset-your-windows-8-pc-complete-guide/)

  :sign-agree:   
Interesting.    Reading through it, it does exactly same as reinstalling win8 over it again.

How about a poll,

Will you buy Windows 8?

It hasn't really interested me to be honest, not like 7 did and I didn't have much fun with touch screen tablets.  I'll wait and see how well it is received this time.

I'm the same Freddy it doesn't interest me either.

But I voted No.

Have no interest in the new blocks GUI. Using a 37-inch screen that isn't touch sensitive or even close enough for me to touch, it just seems pointless. 

Windows 8 boots faster? Will it stay fast once all the up-dates get installed? 
7 boots pretty quick with an SSD.

I have all the software I need running WELL in 7

The only thing in Win 8 that is tempting for me is the new task manger, but its not enough to make me change. 

I voted "no" because when I will have to change my XP computer, Windows 11 (or 12) will be the OEM OS sold with the PC. :D

I voted yes, but as I said it will buy it along with a tablet if possible. If no tablet suits my fancy I'll buy just the os for my laptop.

QuoteWindows 8 boots faster?

windows 8 boots 3 seconds slower than windows 7 on my laptop, and windows 7 has tons of programs installed, where windows 8 only has Ultra Hal, Skype, and some apps.

  I've been playing with Duskriders Haptek characters, he has done some very interesting work and he mentioned  they work good in win 8 so I began thinking about trying the beta.  I'm thinking I could take out the ssd and instal win 8 on a hd for a trial run.  What about drivers for the video card, wireless, chipsets, ect.  Just checked Asus, nothing for win 8 motherboard drivers.
Carl2

I know Windows 8 has lots of drivers built in for all types of hardware, they might not be perfect but would probably work enough to get Windows running.

I found an interesting page about Windows 8, basically saying that 8 is faster than 7 in all tested tasks and once optimised drivers are released for 8 it could be even faster. 

http://www.dailytech.com/Windows+8+Bests+Windows+7+in+Most+Performance+Benchmarks/article24297c.htm (http://www.dailytech.com/Windows+8+Bests+Windows+7+in+Most+Performance+Benchmarks/article24297c.htm)

  I read the article and it looks good,  I showld check Nvidea for the graphics, older card though. I guess I should try it although I'd rather wait till the final release, I'm thinking Asus wouldn't release drivers until win 8 is released from what I read.  At least I can check out dragon and psp and see if they are okay.
Carl2

Update on win8 for those interested.
when i turn it on amd does upgrade sometimes I see somthing different.
Sometimes it says something corrupt and screen freezes, sometimes simply different.    :o
Sometimes everything fine.   ;D

Well, that doesn't sound very encouraging. :(

Sorry to hear that Duskrider, I have not experienced those symptoms yet. However my screen turned black after one update, I restarted and then all was fine.

The freeze angers me, I'm tempted to return to win7.
But when i restart, it's fine.
I guess what I'm saying is they still getting it together.

I did a little google on this problem, you are not alone Dusky, others have it too and it looks like it's being caused by the way Win 8 sets the permissions on files and folders, sometimes it breaks and needs to run a scan disk to repair it on boot up.

Don't think there is much that can be done, just have to wait for MS to fix it. 

Yesterday I installed the new Hap Windows OSI on my XP, Win7 and Win8.
OSI runs fine on all of them. 
Used special non-Jiggly character on win7 as usual but miss Jiggly does fine on both XP & win8.  :)

   I got a virus in this computer, didn't do much, just a screen at startup saying I should buy it or live with all the problems.  Then I noticed that the resource monitor was not working.  Pretty sure I shut it down and changed its .exe to .xxx, then deleated it.  I got a notice saying it couldn't find the file, then taskmngr would not start, clicking the shortcut said it couldn't find it, clicking the application itself also said it couldn't find it.  Since the instalation was pretty new I just reinstalled win 7, I just took another look and I have no locks on files like I had in the previous install.
  I had a Compatibilty files in Explorer which showed the uncompressed files in the Haptek temp folder ( Changed to a Happlayer 64 bit and I no longer get the uncompressed files).  Anyways this is a new feature for me in this install.  A different look and it seems more friendly without all the locks.  Now to get the temp files back.
  I'd have to clean out a storage drive before putting in Win 8 which I may try, HP is putting out drivers for win 8.
Carl2
 

Ok, I finally broke down and installed the Win 8 Consumer Preview inside a VM (VirtualBox 4.~something... the latest version), and played around with it for a while, and I must say that, all things considered, it's not at all bad.

I noticed that it runs a bit slow, especially when I'm playing with the music app, but that's to be expected. I only "gave" it one CPU core to play with, along with only 2GB of RAM (the minimum for Win 8, I'm told). I had a hard time, at first, getting some of the Metro apps to work, but again, that was due to certain limitations that I had imposed, and not anything that I could blame on the OS; once I gave the VM a larger screen to work with, everything settled down.

I'm going to play with it some more, inside the VM, and if I continue to like what I see, then I'll set it up for dual-boot on my laptop, and test again. It's going to be a long time (if ever) before I install it on the desktop, though. I'm still getting used to 7. :P

I decided to fire up Fraps, to "show off" some of the changes and modifications that I've made to my install of Windows 8, but it seems that there's some sort of "bug" in Fraps (or possibly in VirtualBox) that causes the video clip to randomly "flip" random frames upside down. So instead, I've created a YouTube video that I plan on submitting to the Fraps support forums that outlines the problem.

Fraps Support Question (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gC29wUCJOqY#)

Strange, yes? :-\

Yes very strange  :scratch-head:

A thought, have you tried running Fraps in windows 7 compatibility mode?

Fraps is running on the host OS, which is already Windows 7. However, I may try to fiddle with the compatibility settings anyway, and see if it does the same thing. I may also try to install/run Fraps from within 8, and see if that also does the same thing. Thanks, Data! you've given me more options to consider. :)

Dave was that a full screen recording or did you use a certain size window?
only reason I ask, is I had a similar issue with camstudio when using sized windows for recording.

So this will soon be with us, Windows 8.  I wondered what people thought of it in a snapshot sort of way.

I don't think I will be getting it, I am insure about hardware and software compatibility.  Upgrading would prove costly I think.  I'm just going to wait and see.

Window 7 has a good few years left in it yet too.

  Since I'm also interested in Win 8 I began reading a review, http://www.techradar.com/news/software/operating-systems/hands-on-windows-8-review-1025259. (http://www.techradar.com/news/software/operating-systems/hands-on-windows-8-review-1025259.)   
" As with Consumer Preview, how much of a previous Windows system you can keep when you install Release Preview depends on which version you're upgrading from; upgrade from Windows 7 and you can keep programs, " it will not say they will all work, I'm still using dragon 10.1 and I don't think it will take another OS change.
  I'm mostly concerned about the motherboard drivers, and until Win 8 is released they won't say if they are supporting a upgrade.
Carl2

As with all new OS systems there might be a few companies that lag behind with the driver release but many have already got drivers working well in Win 8, ATI and Nvidia for instance already have a driver for their cards.

Intel chipset drivers are already in Win 8 so there shouldn't be any problems there.

Win 8 will come with more drivers than any other OS to date.

Many users of the win 8 Developer Preview have found the Win 7 drivers work in win 8 for their hardware.

Best bet would be to check if your hardware manufacturers are on the ball and ready for Win 8. 

I was going to create a new thread but hey! the thread name is windows 8 first look :) Sin bin here I come  :P
Back on track without further delay, here are the first computers released with yup you guessed it windows 8 http://www.hsn.com/search_c-ec0027_a-50_xc.aspx (http://www.hsn.com/search_c-ec0027_a-50_xc.aspx)

I found this info out from reading this article
http://www.zdnet.com/first-windows-8-pcs-appear-early-crapware-included-7000005346/ (http://www.zdnet.com/first-windows-8-pcs-appear-early-crapware-included-7000005346/)

Good post Syber, not sin bin worthy, sorry : ;D

I wonder if Microsoft will have anything to say about releasing Win 8 computers early.

So those Pc's all come with crapwear pre installed and I bet they don't come with a Windows 8 disk, so probably no way of a fresh install without the crapwear.

Found out that Windows 8 will not come with Windows Media Center, the only way to get it is to buy it as an app later. No thanks MS, I will stick to Win 7, an OS made for the PC and not some hybrid for PC and tablets.

At this rate windows 7 will be the last OS that is made for the desktop PC, hold on to your Win 7 disks people I have a feeling they are going to last a long time. 

I'd imagine that, just like with XP but on a far larger scale, we'll see a HUGE exodus from $M software to some flavor of *nix or another once 7's service life is over. For me it will be Unbutu, which I've already vetted to my satisfaction. I've griped and complained about "Uncle Bill's Evil Empire" for a great many years now, but haven't really done anything about it. If 7 goes the way of 98 and XP without a suitable replacement, I'll have no choice in the matter. :(

I do tend to resist change with my OS until I see a benifit.
I moved over to 7 due to its multi core support; much better than XP. I'm glad I did and am also glad I missed out on Vista.
I have played with 8 a little and really don't like the GUI screen or their business model of moving over to app based OS, like Apple. I don't like mobile 7 or 8 either. iOS and Android (Linux again) are better I feel.
I have played a little with Knoppix and am not impressed. Not polished enough. Have missed Ubuntu but feel this is the best Linux atm for desktops/laptops.
With smart TVs being all the rage, I feel M$ are missing the boat again. All smart TVs seem to use some form of Linux and the next gen of them are rumored to have a gaming PC built in. Even Steam are re-developing their games to run on Linux. In an attempt to "get gaming PCs out of the bedroom and into the front room".
My main bugbears with Linux are, not polished enough and driver/software/game support. If developers move away from Windoze, I'll move too.

I would simply love to voice my opinion on this, however, Data hasn't told me yet what my opinion should be, therefore, I shall keep my unknown opinion to myself.  :P

Back when my main focus with computers was gaming, I felt much the same way, but with my primary interests and goals shifting over to a more web-based realm, the OS really matters little, since the same apps and tools that I'm currently using have either a direct, *nix-based version, or at the very least, a similar app that does the same job, and sometimes, with better bells & whistles. I've never really cared how "polished" an OS looks, so long as it does what I need it to do without my having to pull out gobs of hair in the process. I plainly remember each and every time I've advanced from one OS to the next, there was that ball of fear, lodged in the middle of my throat, making me wonder if I were making the right decision, and in each and every instance (save for the "Migraine Edition", of course - I avoided Vista, so it doesn't count!), that fear has proven pointless. Am I done rambling now? Yeah, I think so. :)

I will be sticking with W7 for a few years yet.  Getting 8 I don't see as viable as 7 has a lot of life in it and works so well - also I just can't be bothered to 'upgrade' for a new GUI.  I had no trouble missing out Vista (phew), so missing this is no biggy.  It will be interesting to see how successful or not this new OS will be though, but apart from that well pffft...

QuoteGood post Syber, not sin bin worthy, sorry : Grin

Dough!!!!

Latest news about those windows 8 pc's is that they will not be shipped until after the release date. more can be found here. http://www.informationweek.com/windows/microsoft-news/windows-8-pcs-on-sale-with-a-catch/240008630 (http://www.informationweek.com/windows/microsoft-news/windows-8-pcs-on-sale-with-a-catch/240008630)

I have a laptop with vista, and to be honest I have not had any troubles with it that where due to the os. Besides it being slower to boot than windows 7, I really have no complaints with vista.

However My main rig has windows 7 and I am constantly on it, My laptop is 17" and weighs a lot so it is not really portable. If it was not for my laptop having a web camera built in and Skype installed, my laptop would virtually get no use.

when I had windows 8 preview installed on my laptop I got a lot more use out of it, mainly with-in the metro area. I used a few live tiles for a quick view of information like weather and news. I also played more games on it, using the Wacom tablet to simulate the touch experience. My kids also asked to use the laptop more often and had fun playing all the metro app games.

I think I will upgrade to windows 8 for my laptop, just so my laptop can get more use, seeing I paid a pretty penny for it.

other than I would not upgrade to windows 8 for windows 7 does all that I need. A few live tiles and a few apps would not justify it for me to upgrade my windows 7 machines. If I was in the market for a new machine or building one, I would defiantly want windows 8 installed.

While waiting for my car to be serviced I just read a pretty extensive review in this month's PC Magazine about Win 8.  The review was non-biased and testing appeared to be completely objective. It was the results that were anything but good.

Apparently Microsoft is going to do a lot of their own development and building instead of farming a lot out to 3rd party sources. The reviewer along with some other well respected brainiacs believe that Microsoft is soon going to prioritize pretty much everything within the OS to the point that one will HAVE to go through THEM instead of 3rd party vendors. The article stated that such action will certainly "drive people away from Microsoft" to another more forgiving platform.

Microsoft's Metro Tiles in Win8 certainly leaves a lot to be desired and seems to be anything BUT user intuitive! Like they threw a different desktop over Win7 and called it Win8. Even with some of the enhancements of this new OS, the article said that the bulk of users would likely stick with their Windows 7 for quite a while. I guess...If it ain't broke, don't fix it!!

The word, Linux was brought to mind in a following article along with a detailed description of how far and how well developed it has become. It's also OPEN SOURCE (FREE), installs with a "Live CD" if desired, installs easily and practically finds everything connected to your computer. Look up UBUNTU as that is one distro that was mentioned as being one of the ones to go to if one desires to make the switch to the other side!!

And the beat goes on....

My wife has had a vista since they came out.   
It's never been any trouble and works as good as first day.

(It's always good to give the little woman her own computer)

Quote from: Duskrider on October 11, 2012, 08:17:57 AM
My wife has had a vista since they came out.   
It's never been any trouble and works as good as first day.

(It's always good to give the little woman her own computer)

IT Crowd - Vista means DEATH (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UC4vz6IbdtY#ws)

  :rofl:

Quote from: Art on October 11, 2012, 01:34:37 AM
While waiting for my car to be serviced I just read a pretty extensive review in this month's PC Magazine about Win 8.  The review was non-biased and testing appeared to be completely objective. It was the results that were anything but good.

Apparently Microsoft is going to do a lot of their own development and building instead of farming a lot out to 3rd party sources. The reviewer along with some other well respected brainiacs believe that Microsoft is soon going to prioritize pretty much everything within the OS to the point that one will HAVE to go through THEM instead of 3rd party vendors. The article stated that such action will certainly "drive people away from Microsoft" to another more forgiving platform.

Microsoft's Metro Tiles in Win8 certainly leaves a lot to be desired and seems to be anything BUT user intuitive! Like they threw a different desktop over Win7 and called it Win8. Even with some of the enhancements of this new OS, the article said that the bulk of users would likely stick with their Windows 7 for quite a while. I guess...If it ain't broke, don't fix it!!

The word, Linux was brought to mind in a following article along with a detailed description of how far and how well developed it has become. It's also OPEN SOURCE (FREE), installs with a "Live CD" if desired, installs easily and practically finds everything connected to your computer. Look up UBUNTU as that is one distro that was mentioned as being one of the ones to go to if one desires to make the switch to the other side!!

And the beat goes on....

That sounds somewhat like Apple but I think Apple are even worse and are making so much money through their app store that MS want to do the same.

I recently had to set up an Ipad for someone that couldn't quite work it out, the first time you switch it on it wants ALL your details, name, address, phone number. (you can't opt out like you can when installing windows)

Then you have to go through 34 pages of terms and conditions, yes 34 pages.

Then to put any apps on the Ipad you have to go through the Apple store, no choice, you can't shell out of the Ipad GUI and just browse the web for apps ( you will be able to in Windows 8 )

Basically I think we have Apple to blame for this mess, MS are just keeping up with them, well that's how I see it.


EDIT:

The Ipad cost her £480, now it is quite a nice bit of kit but to my mind isn't worth anywhere near that amount of money, I would be happy to pay about £150 maybe £200 but no more, it is a massively overpriced and is making Apple oh so rich.

http://www.techradar.com/news/computing/apple/how-apple-became-the-worlds-richest-company-1088017 (http://www.techradar.com/news/computing/apple/how-apple-became-the-worlds-richest-company-1088017)

I might actually get Win 8 just to stick two fingers up at the (IMHO) mighty evil Apple.

QuoteThen to put any apps on the Ipad you have to go through the Apple store, no choice, you can't shell out of the Ipad GUI and just browse the web for apps ( you will be able to in Windows 8 )

Note: the windows 8 rt version you will not be able to install apps or programs unless there from the windows app store.

Data, a while ago I though about getting an Ipad but I decided against it. After using one of my friends and seeing how limited it was, I knew it was not worth the money they charge for it. It is a nice product just not worth the price. I'm waiting for a nice lightwheight windows 8 tablet....should not be too much longer :)

Syber, remember we are talking about windows here, you can always go to the desktop and go digging, where there is a will there is a way.  :D

But yeah it looks like it depends on the vershion you buy. 

http://www.ghacks.net/2012/08/17/how-to-add-non-store-apps-to-windows-8/ (http://www.ghacks.net/2012/08/17/how-to-add-non-store-apps-to-windows-8/)

You had to go show me that article didn't you  :LOL: Now I am going to want to build my own personal app for my laptop once I buy windows 8  :Head-Slap:

to many projects not enough time in a day.

Windows 8 is released tomorrow, I found a great video that tells us a lot about it, sit back relax and enjoy the ups and downs. 

Windows 8 Survival Guide Part 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfODwWeP9MI#ws) 

   

Thanks Data - I watched all of that, was quite informative.  I can't see any reason really to upgrade though  :scratch-head:

Nice informative video  :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

I have to agree with Freddy 100%. That #^&%! Metro interface just isn't worth the headaches.

I've been trying to find a good plus point, a reason to get Windows 8, the only thing that people seem to say is good about it is the boot up and close down times, but hang on, every time a new OS comes out it boots quick, the question is "will it stay quick after all the up-dates or just a year of using it?".

Think I will stick to Win 7 and an SSD, it boots and shuts down quick and after many up dates and months of use, it is still quick.

And I have to agree with Dave and Freddy, that Metro interface is just not worth the headaches.

I agree with you gents.  To me it seems simply that they are trying to push the Metro design on everyone, this is their new direction in life.  To me it seems like W7 + tablet theme and not a lot more.

My PC is plenty fast enough for me.  I can't be bothered with the headache of finding my best programs do not work and probably having to buy a new scanner and printer to boot.  All far too irritating and expensive for me.

If it ain't broke don't fix it !

I will most likely not upgrade Windows until I build a new PC - then at that time I will look into the options.

Okay Microsoft wake up here, your new windows 8 pro operating system is only 39.99 for a limited time of course, but your new surface Tablet with only the new start menu and new office is $499.00
windows 8  pro
http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msstore/html/pbpage.Windows_8_Pro?Icid=Homepage_4_Up_Win8_Pro_10_26 (http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msstore/html/pbpage.Windows_8_Pro?Icid=Homepage_4_Up_Win8_Pro_10_26)
Surface
http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msstore/DisplayHomePage (http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msstore/DisplayHomePage)

I will say something for MicroDosh... they have at least set the price low to start with.  I think W7 cost me £90.00, I could buy the upgrade today for £25.00..

I will be getting it next month if it is still the same price, providing I heard wife correctly :) no can do this month we went a little over budget. nothing that will hurt us but stopping me from getting a new os toy sooner than later.

Just done a bit more digging around, and its not good for me and my setup.

No driver for my HD4890 graphics card  :'(

No driver for my XFI sound card  :'(

It might be possible to force in some Windows 7 drivers and mess around to get them working, hmm it is tempting at £25, could do a dual boot on a second SSD.  :scratch-head:

I was thinking the same thing, actually. For only $40USD, you can't really go wrong, I'm thinking. :)

Is there a program you can download to test a system like they did last time ?

Not sure what the URL is, but there IS a "Windows Upgrade Advisor" available. That would probably be what you're looking for. :)

[edit]
Found it! :D
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows/downloads/upgrade-advisor (http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows/downloads/upgrade-advisor)
[/edit]
OOPS? That's for Win 7. Still looking!

Ok, after a bit more poking around, I found this:

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows-8/upgrade-to-windows-8 (http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows-8/upgrade-to-windows-8)

It's called an "Upgrade Assistant", not an advisor. Go figure. :)

Thanks Dave...now checking for curiosity value  :thumbsup:

That tool might come in handy, thanks for posting it Dave  :)



If like me you use Windows Media Center to watch TV on your PC you will need to buy the app, it is not included with Win 8 on the disk.

The good news is that you can download a free product key for it right now, this is a limited offer, so grab the key while you can. I have mine, just in case.  ;)

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows-8/feature-packs (http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows-8/feature-packs)

Cheers  :thumbsup:

I found out most of my stuff seems to work.  But a couple of Adobe products do not - it says they need an upgrade, so that's going to be expensive.  Surprisingly the printer should work.  THere was nothing on the scanner, so must assume that needs replacing as I was running that via xp mode.  I don't know if XP mode will still work.

For the expense versus improvements it does not seem a good idea for me.  I might pick it up for £25.00 while it's cheap though just incase they do something good with it.

Thanks for the link Data

Have just purchased a copy of win 8  :o, I had to for my work really, need to learn it.

I did the £25 up-grade option and it worked, at the end of the download it gave me 3 options.

    Install Now

    Install by creating media

    Install later from your desktop

I did the second option "Install by creating media" than I could save the windows8.iso file to my computer for burning to disk later, apparently you can install windows8 onto a second drive if you have the disk.

So it's looking pretty good so far, for £25 you can get a windows 8 pro up-grade disk, if you burn it yourself.

Cool, let us know what works or more importantly what does not work...  :thumbsup:

Congrats Data, Hopefully everything works well, and if not may it be a easy fix :)
I sent a request for the free media center key, it said it could take up to 24 hours which has passed by. I may have to request for it again for I did not receive my key yet :(

Syber, my media center key took over 24 hours, you still might get it.



I have a dual boot with 7 and 8, both OS's are on SSD, Had a good few hours getting used to win 8.

This is what i think about 8 so far:

It doesn't boot any quicker then 7

It takes longer to shut down than 7 (quite a shock that)

I really miss my desktop gadgets, they are not available in 8

I miss windows aero, having solid none transparent borders round the windows feels like a backward move to me.

The lack of start button on a desktop PC is a really stupid idea.

Then we get to the apps, I have tried lots of them and to my mind they are very lacking, they just seem to be webpages with limited functionality, i have uninstalled all the apps simply because I can't find a use for them at all.

I am desperately trying to find a plus point to win 8 but its not easy, maybe the ability to have an image as a password rather than type something in is a plus point, so far that's about it.

I am sorry Microsoft, I loved win 7 when it came out and was full of praise for it but win 8 is going to annoy a lot of people and is just not suited to the desktop PC.  

Most interesting comments my friend, thanks for sharing your thoughts - I don't think I will bother then.

Sorry forget to mention that I did receive my key finally, and it took over 24 hours here as well.

I'm gonna quote a few lines hope ya don't mind, if you do Send me to sin bin so  I can work on getting a metal  :P
Thanks for keeping us posted on your experiences with windows 8 hope to see more in the future :)

QuoteIt doesn't boot any quicker then 7

when I had it on my laptop with a hhd it booted close to same time as winndows7 on ssd. I would think on ssd it would be faster

QuoteIt takes longer to shut down than 7 (quite a shock that)

something not right there....my laptop shut down atleast 10-15 seconds faster than my desktop

QuoteI really miss my desktop gadgets, they are not available in 8

I never used them, and did not even see/notice if they where available, thanks for the info...I can see that being an issue for someone use to using them though.

QuoteI miss windows aero, having solid none transparent borders round the windows feels like a backward move to me.

I liked the simple clean look, though earo should be an option..Agreed

QuoteThe lack of start button on a desktop PC is a really stupid idea.

I agree to disagree only because I have Trinity << lol rimes  :P

QuoteThen we get to the apps, I have tried lots of them and to my mind they are very lacking, they just seem to be webpages with limited functionality, i have uninstalled all the apps simply because I can't find a use for them at all.

basically that is what they are, besides the games I did not really find any use for them either.

QuoteI am desperately trying to find a plus point to win 8 but its not easy, maybe the ability to have an image as a password rather than type something in is a plus point, so far that's about it.

If one does not have a web cam that point goes down the drain. I can think of one off the top of my head that should not be capable of dispute but you never now....you get to use the latest windows operating system...I know I know joy  ;D oh w8 the new sapi5 voice is pretty sweet  :thumbsup:

QuoteI am sorry Microsoft, I loved win 7 when it came out and was full of praise for it but win 8 is going to annoy a lot of people and is just not suited to the desktop PC.

I really liked the consumer preview so I'm sure I will like the new release as much if not more. Do I think a lot of people are gonna hate it? yes I do.

I played with window8 for over a week and granted the first days I was not too pleased. But after using it and being familiar with operations I found it quite nice. and I can't w8 to get it.

Yeah, they seem a bit slow at giving out the keys for media center, glad you got it in the end  :)

I have my code for media center and its working well in win 8, looks identical to the win 7 version which works well too.  

I don't think there is anything much wrong with my 8 install but there is something right with my Win 7 install  ;D I'm not talking large amounts slower, maybe a second or 3 but win 8 is taking a little longer than 7 to shut down, for me.

I have the SSD running in AHCI mode with the latest Intel drivers for the controller in both win 7 and 8.

Honestly there is isn't much in it, but after being told that it boots and shuts down quicker than 7, I simply can't agree, at least not when using a desktop PC with an SSD, 7 boots in about 10 seconds, I did think 8 would have to fly some to top that.

If I was to sum win 8 up I would have to say its not aimed at all at the powerfull desktop PC market. This is why it has had some of the nice features of win 7 removed so it will work better on a tablet or laptop. The apps are there for kids to spend their parent's money on but have no or very little use to the power user.

Here is something that I'm getting quite a lot in 8.

I install a program from the desktop, I then want to run the program.

No shortcut is made on the desktop or the task bar. I have no start menu to browse for the new program, so I have to run metro, from there I can run the program or pin a short to the taskbar, The best bit is when you run the program from metro what do you think it does? Don't laugh ... it closes metro takes you back to the desktop and runs the program. Now hang on, why did I have to go to the metro part again  :scratch-head:  

Using 7 now, our last and best hope for the desktop PC.  

no changes and now they want to charge media player, that's odd, I figured there would be some major changes there.

That does stink about the speed your experiencing, I know where you coming from though for all over you hear of the start up and shut down speeds being faster. I'm actually shocked to here those results.

metro is designed to be a start menu, a place to launch your programs and or apps, I agree it is a slower way than the older style. I however was not forced to use the new start menu for I just spoke to Trinity telling her to open a program for me. (She also came in handy for os navigation) Though I did have to use metro to try out and play with the apps, but that was not too bad for apps did not have to close out of metro.

QuoteThe apps are there for kids to spend their parent's money on

:rofl: So true

Quote from: sybershot on October 29, 2012, 20:52:20 PM

QuoteThe apps are there for kids to spend their parent's money on

:rofl: So true

I thought you might like that Syber :)

Today I have got the start menu back in windows 8, it is a third party thing, nothing to do with MS and I have to say its very good, more customisable than the win 7 start menu, it also enables you to boot win 8 straight in to the desktop, no need to go to metro first.

A massive improvement.

http://classicshell.sourceforge.net/ (http://classicshell.sourceforge.net/)


[attachment deleted by admin]

StarDock also has an app for that, called Start8 (or something like that), and I used it while I was checking out the consumer preview. I gotta say though that the app you found looks more like the 7 start menu that we're used to.

This makes me laugh a little.  So we're gonna spend money on upgrading the OS, programs and hardware, spend hours figuring out the new system, fret that there are no performance improvements....and after all that then we are going to spend time converting it back to be like windows 7

:hmm:

What can I say? I'm a creature of habit! :P

Quote from: Freddy on October 30, 2012, 14:19:02 PM
This makes me laugh a little.  So we're gonna spend money on upgrading the OS, programs and hardware, spend hours figuring out the new system, fret that there are no performance improvements....and after all that then we are going to spend time converting it back to be like windows 7

:hmm:

I would love to say, don't be silly Freddy, Win 8 is amazing and is going to improve your desktop PC in ways that you can't imagine.

Yeah that would have been cool.  8)

Hitler finds out the Start menu will be removed from Windows 8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69RllXjCL6o#ws)

Great video  :LOL:

If I get a tablet PC it will be the Google Nexus 7 incidentally.

 8) Nice menu addition Data, color is nice as well.

I agree with Freddy about the video being great, however wanting a Google Nexus 7  :o

What is the app formally know as Metro called now?

Is it just going to be called 'formally know as...' or is it going to get a symbol like Prince did in the 90s?

Quote from: sybershot on October 30, 2012, 18:14:44 PM
I agree with Freddy about the video being great, however wanting a Google Nexus 7  :o

Is that bad ?  :LOL:

Most people seem to think it is really good.  And I do like Android, I have some ideas for apps.  You can make loads of money if you find something people want and if you code it well.  My main interest is not money, I get more fun out of the coding.

@Snowy, didn't Prince's name change see him descend into obscurity ?  Could be history repeating itself, oh hang on that was Vista ... :P

QuoteIs that bad ?  lol

No No not at all, Sorry if it seemed that way. I should of explained my emotions, I am just shocked for I don't hear that from many people. Usually I hear "If I get a tablet PC it will be the IPad."

Ahhh I see...well an iPad would be nice, but not for the price they are charging.  I think Android has taken over as the most popular tablet OS now anyway.

Of course all who recently voted NO will change their minds when MS stops supporting 7. That should be a few years down the road but it will happen. You will ALL become adopters! It is the way of the UPGRADERS!! It is the way that ALL companies have ordained it to be. Pay once...upgrade forever!! Unless you wish to try Ubuntu...that's FREE! Forever! :-\ :scratch-head:

I voted no but have already broken my word  :-[

Well chaps I have got win 8 to where I want it, its setup like win 7 with a start menu, boots straight to desktop and I even got the gadgets back by using another hack.

Will see how things go, its not always a good idea to mod the OS, something might go wrong at some point.


[attachment deleted by admin]

Looks great Data, I'll be sure to post some screenshots of windows8 once I get it. Hopefully wife did not change her decision for the beginning of the month is coming fast :)

Quote from: Data on October 31, 2012, 11:39:47 AM
... and I even got the gadgets back by using another hack.

Don't just leave us hanging, Data! Please educate us! :)

Quote from: DaveMorton on October 31, 2012, 21:51:10 PM

Quote from: Data on October 31, 2012, 11:39:47 AM
... and I even got the gadgets back by using another hack.

Don't just leave us hanging, Data! Please educate us! :)

Oh yes oops, sorry forgot to mention how I got the gadgets back.

http://techdows.com/2012/08/enable-or-install-gadgets-in-windows-8.html (http://techdows.com/2012/08/enable-or-install-gadgets-in-windows-8.html)

Bear in mind that the gadgets have been, "borrowed" ;) from win 7, I wouldn't have thought M$ would be too happy about sites giving out their software, better get them while they're hot, always nicer that way.

Thanks for the link, Data. I think I'll grab that, just in case, since I find a couple of gadgets to be rather useful, including a 3rd party alarm clock, which works almost as well (though with far fewer options) as the one I wrote.

While reading that article, I noticed that Dell is "giving away" (with a minor catch) "Windows 8 for Dummies" as a PDF e-book, which most of us may find useful at some point. The article is at http://techdows.com/2012/10/download-windows-8-for-dummies-free-pdf-ebook.html (http://techdows.com/2012/10/download-windows-8-for-dummies-free-pdf-ebook.html)

both of those may come in handy Thanks Data and Dave  :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

So the reason Windows no longer included the gadgets was due to vulnerabilities! I hate vulnerabilities! The always cause problems so that's why I don't want to install any!!

Windows 8, that's another story and be careful. After all, Microsoft DOES know what's in your best interest! ::)

Yes I've known about the possible security vulnerabilities with some gadgets for a while now, I think as long as you stay with your trusted gadgets from Win 7 it will be fine  :thumbsup:


Adding the gadgets to win 8 does slow down the boot time just a bit, that's for sure, they did load quicker in win 7, I guess that is to be expected really. 

I wonder if there's a way to delay loading them by assigning that to a scheduled task, and make them, effectively, load after the desktop is visible... Hmmm.

Of course, having them load in the background (possibly through a service) would be better still. :)

Any suggestions for a free burning program that can burn windows8.iso, Have not used one in many years since I stopped [spoiler]pirating[/spoiler]  :innocent: many years ago.

If I remember correctly windows 8 comes with a burning program capable of the task, but I plan on choosing option 2 like Data. not sure if I can do both options, option 2 then option 1

Quote from: sybershot on November 01, 2012, 20:37:13 PM
Any suggestions for a free burning program that can burn windows8.iso, Have not used one in many years since I stopped [spoiler]pirating[/spoiler]  :innocent: many years ago.

If I remember correctly windows 8 comes with a burning program capable of the task, but I plan on choosing option 2 like Data. not sure if I can do both options, option 2 then option 1

Syber dear boy, you can burn the iso to disk using windows 7 no other software is needed.

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows7/Burn-a-CD-or-DVD-from-an-ISO-file (http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows7/Burn-a-CD-or-DVD-from-an-ISO-file)

Thanks a million data  ;D

Been downloading windows 8 for the about 45 minutes 17% done: estimate 4.1 hours left from 4.5 hours it going to be a long night :)

Good luck Syber  :thumbsup:

Here is my Metro start screen with all the apps that I find useful. Don't laugh,

oh OK then, you can laugh. :LOL:


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:rofl:

Thanks Data and by the way that is the cleanest Start/metro screen I have seen yet  :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

quick update.
Downloaded windows 8: Done
Burned iso image to disk: Done
Install windows 8: Done but not on SSD (see below)

I tried to install windows over my windows 7 install, but failed. It said I needed 20 gigs of free space. I could only manage to get a bit more than 9 after uninstalling every program possible.

I then tried to install over the windows 7, and failed at that also. Windows 8 need 25gigs free to that option.

So I used a partition I was using for a server, on my 1 tb drive. Windows installed with no issues.

When I have a chance I will reformat the ssd and install windows 8 on it.

Update: SSD reformatted and Windows8 installed onto it :D
Time to install program and a few drivers.

Well done Syber, you are almost there :)

Yesterday, after running win 8 for a week I decided to undo the dual boot, mainly to get some SSD space back for my games (been running games from the HDD and they take too long to load, sometimes like 4 times longer)

Don't ask me how I didn't make a note of it and it wasn't that easy, kept hitting problems but I managed to un partition the windows 7 volume and enlarge my games drive by using the left over space. Now only have win 8, keeping fingers crossed it was the right thing to do.


A side note:

IE 10 in win 8 has a few problems, its not fully supporting java as far as I can tell and sometimes pages are displaying bad even in compatibility mode, it still needs work.

Chrome still has that annoying bug in win 8 where it stops playing gif files, I have noticed it on a few sites now.

FireFox doesn't seem to have any problems in win 8 and is probably the best to use right now.
   

QuoteWell done Syber, you are almost there Smiley

Thanks but I still have a long way to :) I have a few programs installed (FireFox, ultra Hal and character expansion, Balabolka, openoffice, notepad++, Ivona voices, yod'm 3D, and windows media player) I have a lot to do to get Trinity back to par, maybe even a new GUI design. I have not had much time to play around with windows8 for I had to re-install forum and joomla onto my website. I have a few more things to do for website, then I'll be attacking windows 8.

I found a few issue with windows 8
IE / java as you  pointed out
another is my file explorer freezes after opening to many open office text docs.
I think I will be writing a blog post once I'm done setting up windows 8.

Quote from: Data on November 02, 2012, 12:45:46 PM
Good luck Syber  :thumbsup:

Here is my Metro start screen with all the apps that I find useful. Don't laugh,

oh OK then, you can laugh. :LOL:

I feel you're not entering the spirit of the M$ world. Good man.  :LOL: ;D

Quote from: Snowcrash on November 04, 2012, 23:08:55 PM
I feel you're not entering the spirit of the M$ world. Good man.  :LOL: ;D

Oh you spotted it Snowy  :D

Yeah Metro is 100% useless to me, you can't even drag a file from one app to another, how the hell are we supposed to work with such a limited interface.

Given the price they're offering it for, I've been sorely tempted, but I do a ~LOT~ of "drag & drop", and if Metro doesn't support that, then there's no sense in my getting it.

{sigh!} back & forth, back & forth. :(

Think I'll W8 for W9

If one has windows7 or any other OS  for that matter on their desktop or laptop and  it does what one needs, There is really no reason to upgrade except if.

• They want to use and play with metro apps
• They want the latest operating system from Microsoft
• They need it for business reasons like Data

Iitems 1 and 2 was my reasons, and $40.00 was not a bad price to pay to be able to play and have the latest os from Microsoft :P

I think you summed that up nicely Syber.

Think of Metro as an app to play around with but do all your serious work on the desktop. then windows 8 isn't all that bad.

I have so far enjoyed my time playing with and getting win 8 to where I want it, and have now even done some website work using all my favourite programs on the desktop as normal. 

To be fair I haven't found any program that doesn't run in 8 and being a creature of habit some of them are pretty old now.

Here's a thing, when I did the pre install test it told me that my old version of word wouldn't work along with my old Photoshop and a few other things, well it was wrong, they do all work, just as they did in 7.   

Thanks Data, I only found 2 programs not to work/install so far on a clean windows 8 install. older version of cam studio, have not tried the latest one yet.  But worst of all my G13 gamming pad software  :'(

Though I will find a way to get installed

Quote from: sybershot on November 05, 2012, 18:14:11 PM
But worst of all my G13 gamming pad software  :'(

I had the same problem with my Saitek gamepad software but I managed to get round it in the end. For me it was a driver signing issue but I also had to run the install as admin and in win 7 compatibility mode.     

Thanks for the tip Data. I do remember it was a driver signing issue, I'll try installing under later again tonight maybe if I have the time in windows 7 compatibility mode

My windows 8 desktop along with yod'm 3D which gives me 4 desktops for added real-estate.


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Finally got G13 gaming pad installed :) I had to download installer from Logitech's website.

I need more desktops - mine gets so cluttered.  Very nice Syber  :thumbsup:

Yes i like the idea of 4 desktops too, does sound like a bit of fun if nothing else, though I'm sure the extra space could come in handy.

Syber I went looking for the softwear and found DeskSpace 1.5.8.11 (http://deskspace.en.uptodown.com/) is that the same thing but a more modern version?

And well done getting that driver in for the G13  :thumbsup:

{looks at his cramped, messy desk, then slowly pans the room}

NO SPACE! How could I POSSIBLY fit 3 more desks in here?!?!?! :o

Freddy the best part about yood'm is you can have different programs running on each of the four desktops.

Example:
desktop 1) your website opened in 3-4 browsers
desktop 2) Notepad ++ and ftp client
desktop 3) your code library, and or a browser opened to a tutorial and or Google
desktop 4) your music player

I don't have a multiple monitor set-up so this comes in handy :D and enhances workflow  :thumbsup:

Yes Data, the company who originally made yod'm desktop sold it to that company. Yod'm was free before that company got it's hands on it. I believe you can still download yodm'm from that website If not let me know and I can send you a copy.

Dave I managed to get a desk in small cramped room I'm sure you can find a way  :P

Thanks for the info Syber, I did try to install and run Yod'm but it refuses to run on my win 8, might have another go at it later.

Your welcome Data. If tat version is giving you troubles, I just uploaded the version I'm using...let me know if that works for ya.

My windows 8 got a nasty virus from a flv player, I had to re--install windows 8. what a pain, but could of been worse. Luckily it did not reach out to my other partitions.I guess the good news from this is that I now have a boot manager working.

trying to remember the name of the flv player, but cannot pull it out of my memory at this time, Sorry :(

Windows defender didn't catch it then, Doh!

Thanks for the warning Syber.

your welcome, still can't remember the name rrrr dang memory.

I got most priority programs re-installed, I was :o to see that windows remembered my history and favorites within IE10 even after a clean install. 

Quote from: sybershot on November 13, 2012, 12:55:43 PM
I was :o to see that windows remembered my history and favorites within IE10 even after a clean install. 

That doesn't sound possible, did you format the drive before reinstalling?

I thought that was odd too - then I wondered if IE10 links to online storage, to get the bookmarks back ?

Like Skydrive or something..

VLC player is all you need to play mp4, mkv and most other movie formats.

QuoteThat doesn't sound possible, did you format the drive before reinstalling?

Yes I deleted the partition and created a new partition, re-formatted then re-installed windows 8.
you may also like to know that your desktop image re-appears, and so does all your mail accounts. all mail accounts except for main one you have to re-insert the password. I can only image how much info there hoarding and datamining.

QuoteVLC player is all you need to play mp4, mkv and most other movie formats.

Snowcrash thanks but I never did like vlc player gui, I normally use WinAmp with custom gui skins. I just wanted to try something new.

Syber, I thought you had formatted and did a real clean install but I just wanted to check.

Now I'm thinking it might be something to do with the account type for windows 8.

Users have two option; an online account or an offline account, me I have an offline account so windows doesn't sign in to the cloud, I'm guessing you must have an online account there Syber.   

Quote from: Freddy on November 13, 2012, 14:03:19 PM
I thought that was odd too - then I wondered if IE10 links to online storage, to get the bookmarks back ?

Like Skydrive or something..

:sign-dito:

Yup i reckon you were spot on there Freddy  :thumbsup:

QuoteNow I'm thinking it might be something to do with the account type for windows 8.

Users have two option; an online account or an offline account, me I have an offline account so windows doesn't sign in to the cloud, I'm guessing you must have an online account there Syber. 

Yes Data that is correct, I did use my hotmail account to use as a sign in option for my os. Seeing the circumstances It saved me a lot of set up time :) though it is a bit on the scary side.  :scratch-head:

You may as well get used to it, Syber. The day's not far off where EVERY computer will log into the cloud, and much of the OS will actually reside there. Personally, I hate the idea, but I'm preparing for it, all the same.

Quote from: DaveMorton on November 14, 2012, 23:52:33 PM
You may as well get used to it, Syber. The day's not far off where EVERY computer will log into the cloud, and much of the OS will actually reside there. Personally, I hate the idea, but I'm preparing for it, all the same.

They are going to have to drag me kicking and screaming along with them too  :angry-shout:

I know its a fight I can't win but its the taking part that counts.  :chase:   

I'm with you 110%, Data. I'll connect to the net when ~I~ want, %$%^& it! :headbang:

QuoteThey are going to have to drag me kicking and screaming along with them too  Angry Shout

I know its a fight I can't win but its the taking part that counts.  chase   

QuoteI'm with you 110%, Data. I'll connect to the net when ~I~ want, %$%^& it! headbang

Both ways has it's advantages and disadvantages, I'll continue to keep my windows 7 operating system of line at all times(no if ands or buts).

Syber,

What about those precious MS Updates that your computer NEEDS so badly???HUH?? ::)

Those can be had through the Microsoft Download center, and transferred via thumb drive, if necessary. :) But I'd much rather just do it over the net. Much less hassle.

QuoteSyber,

What about those precious MS Updates that your computer NEEDS so badly???HUH?? Roll Eyes

My windows 7 on my secondary drive has not had any updates, since I installed it from the disk. It still works great, no issues once so ever. It never seen web nor will it ever not even for an update. I look at it this, if it works, I'm not fixing it and neither is Microsoft :D

I have vista and windows 8 that has web access, more than enough web access for me  :P

I just got done installing Win 8 on Mom's laptop (well, actually, I just finished fixing ~HER~ install, really), and I found out something interesting. It seems that if there is a multiple monitor setup, and if the desktop is extended, rather than duplicated across both monitors, the start page/screen/whatever only covers one screen! Not only that, you can decide fairly simply which one you have the start screen appear on, simply by hovering over the lower-right corner of the screen you want to use. From then on, the Windows key will toggle the Start screen in the chosen monitor's area. Cool, yes? For my situation, this is a huge bonus, and will likely affect my decision to get Win 8. :)

That's another fact about Win 8 that we didn't know then, really apart from the annoyances of the OS that can be sorted out or removed by a bit of tweaking it is a pretty good OS that runs all my programs well.

glad you sorted out the issue with moms pc.

I really need a dual screen even better triple screens but drive space needs to come first.

Well, I got 8 installed, and I'm now going through the joys of OS customization. :) I expect that to take me a few days, though it's going to be a lot easier than it was when I switched to 7. At least this time I can simply "add" my documents, pictures, videos and music to the proper libraries, and then delete the current entries, so that saves me a lot of time & heartache. About the only thing I really need to do is change the default program install paths and the location of the ProgramData folders. :)

I still have a ton of apps & programs to install, of course. LOTS of fun. :D :thumbsup:

After chatting to people who use Win8, it seens that they're ok with it after they've worked with it for a while and got used to how M$ want them to work. The most annoying thing I can see (for me) is the way apps go full screen, making using multple apps and flipping between them difficult. I do this a lot.

Other peoples views...

Windows 8: The Animated Evaluation (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTYet-qf1jo#ws)

Windows 8: It's Almost Not Terrible (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0fsyb-ttcw#ws)

I think Win 8 is the best thing since the Laserdisc (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laserdisc) and there are similarities too.

It's nice to look at but try to work with it and it becomes useless.

I posted this over on Dreams, thought I would post it here too.

Windows 8 SSD optimisation (TRIM) in action, to be fair this option is not available in Windows 7, Win 7 will try to defrag the SSD and it's not a good idea to defrag an SSD. 


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I imagine there are 3rd party tools to do the same thing though ?

Yes there are, normally made by the SSD manufacturers, but who has them installed?

I just think it's a good idea to have it built into the OS, just install windows 8 and it will keep that SSD optimised for you, no fuss, or if you like run a TRIM and be able to monitor it's progress and status.

Win 7 does have a limited TRIM built in too but the user has no control over it and is unable to monitor it or even find it's status, when was it last trimmed, is a trim required .. etc.