Two new stories here that will change our future, I think it's the beginning of the end for Coal, Gas and hopefully Oil too, if we can wean people away from "dirty diesel" and "polluting petrol", but maybe that's for another thread (http://www.datahopa.co.uk/forum/motor-sport-general-discussion/electric-cars/).
New laws and subsidies in battery technology/development here in the UK are going to change the way we generate and store electricity.
It's early days but it will happen, I believe :)
Electricity shake-up could save consumers 'up to £40bn' (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-40699986)
World's first floating wind farm emerges off coast of Scotland (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-40699979)
It has been advertised for some time that the state will pay for the cost of solar panels installed on homes. I also read an article about the effect of led lighting has led to the a reduction of electric used by quite a bit.
I think it is going to be quite a while for the diesel engines to die out, over here they are used in busses and school busses as well as moving things from one part of the US to another. Since I've always wondered how it was affordable to import things from other parts of the world which is commonly done I now find myself shopping online and buying things from China for the e cig thing.
Carl2
Quote from: Carl2 on July 25, 2017, 12:51:42 PM
It has been advertised for some time that the state will pay for the cost of solar panels installed on homes.
That sounds great Carl :)
We have done the same kind of thing over here in the UK for a number of years now, unfortunately it is stopping soon as we try to move to the next faze, or the money has run out.
The latest big thing here is to have solar panels on our homes connected to a "battery wall" in the home, the panels will charge the battery so the owner can use the power at night. The battery wall will also be connected to the grid so power can go back to the grid if needed.
What we can't generate from the home solar panels we can get from the wind farms which will also charge large battery farms that the government is planning to build. The battery farms can be used when the wind isn't blowing.
I may have oversimplified it but that's the basic idea.
Quite simple, cheap and environmentally friendly electricity for our homes and cars :)
That is the Rethinking of Electricity and the future, if we choose to have the belief.
I have seen some nice district storage ideas. They work on the small village size and up and use chemical tanks to store energy that can be converted to electrical power when required.
And thermal storage so you need less electrical power.
Yeah that's the kind of idea Snowy, I think they are looking at building very large lithium ion battery farms (for want of a better word) like this one in Australia (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-40527784)
If we have a few of them around the country and can generate enough power to charge them it could well be part of the equation.
Interesting vid on energy density of batteries. Current to theoretical limits.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdPqWv-eVIc
And can we manufacture enough? The numbers.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahxBbEwhIE0
It's doable.
Had to add this little bit of wind farm info to the thread.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCx92ADB138
Tesla Powerwall, I need to move house so I can get some serious solar panels up, one day.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWLzlrGGuxQ
Note to Snowy:
I moved your previous post in the EV thread to this thread, it seems to fit better here.
Renewable energy and storage, gets my vote :tick:
I know I go on about it but this is the future, battery walls in homes, car to grid technology in EV's and battery farms to fill in the gaps.
The Orkney experiment will work, I believe :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEh7V9_uIqM
Found some figures on our wind farm (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rampion_Wind_Farm).
Quote
Final plans use 116 turbines of approximately 3.45 MW capacity, each 140 metres (459.3 ft) high to the tip of the blade, which represents a 43% reduction in the size of the development after planning consent was granted.
Originally proposed using either 175 smaller turbines of 3–3.6 MW capacity, each 180 metres (590.6 ft) above low tide sea level, or 100 larger turbines of 7 MW capacity, each 210 metres (689.0 ft) above sea level.
Looks like the NIMBYs got in there then. Total of about 400MW rather than approx. 1GW. I counted 101 yesterday from the hill above you (Data), so it's near completion.
Really looking forward to our wind farm being completed and seeing them turbines spinning, shouldn't be too long now then :D
Yeah it looks like the NIMBYs did get a little victory there :( we need to make it our job to fight these small minded excuses for humans and remind them that their little lives are insignificant compared to the bigger picture.
Sorry but they make me :very-angry:
Anyway, good post Snowy, keep up the good fight soldier, confront these NIMBYs wherever you find them and blind them with facts.
Sorry but I'm old, I let the children worry and try to fix these things, I refer to them as children but am talking young adults, I had a fairy young policeman stop me for speeding in a new car I bought and was trying out, pulled a gun on me, first time I had a gun pointed at me so I guess he was scared. I try to avoid stress.
Carl2
Quote from: Carl2 on September 15, 2017, 22:07:08 PM
Sorry but I'm old, I let the children worry and try to fix these things, I refer to them as children but am talking young adults.
I'm not sure the children or young adults have the life experience to deal with these things, they may think they do but they need guidance and wisdom from their elders.
Together we can achieve great things.
Found this and thought I'd share...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPBTdSfLBg8
Though it may be BS
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbYtn420QBM
Quote from: Snowcrash on September 20, 2017, 16:53:53 PM
Though it may be BS
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbYtn420QBM
I'm all for efficiency and cost cutting, who wouldn't be ? This Particle Accelerator cutting idea sounds good, I guess time will tell here but if they don't crack it someone else will.
Agree with you though Snowy it does sounds a little like BS. Would be very happy to be proven wrong :)
Australia seem to have the right idea, some good info in this vid.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxABosWfuus
That gave me a great deal of hope and anticipation. Thanks, Data! :thumbsup:
It's amazing what humans can achieve when someone has a good idea and they work together, this video of floating wind turbines actually brought a tier to my eye, in a good way.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUlfvXaISvc
Just plonking the first fully charged vid of 2018 in here, it's mostly about power generation.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mlU-0DtZ6g
Found this vid that puts a limit on where batteries can go.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RbwOhM6PUk
It's referencing this vid...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAg_8iCLIIw
Quote from: Snowcrash on January 15, 2018, 22:36:24 PM
Found this vid that puts a limit on where batteries can go.
Thunderf00t has had a hell of a lot of negative feedback from that video, seriously he seems so pessimistic these days that I stopped watching his vids a while ago.
Batteries will improve that's for sure.
Read some of the videos comments. Going to leave it at that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=5&v=8RbwOhM6PUk
An interesting development, probably a lot of people trying to make some improvement to what we already have and sooner or latter it will happen.
Carl2
Yes agreed Carl.
In fact this is already happening especially in EV batteries where the development is being taken very seriously, the new Leaf for example has a battery the same physical size as the first gen car but has almost double the capacity. They have gone from 24kWh to 40kWh, next year a 60kWh version is being released.
In the video Thunderf00t claimed that a battery in an EV can only go 1/3 the distance of a petrol car, he is already living in the past, An 85kWh Tesla can already do more than 200 miles, I don't know many petrol powered cars that can do 600 miles on a tank of fuel. Soon 400 mile range EV's will be coming.
Thunderf00t also mentioned that the batteries take up more space and weigh more than a gas tank but forgot to mention the weight of the engine/gearbox in an ICE vehicle.
He does like to play with Science and is quite good at it but knows little about EV's or batteries, that is clear from his comments.
Will they ever make a perfect battery ? of course not, nothing is perfect apart from cats :D
My cat is far from perfect, sometimes I think she does things she shouldn't to get my attention. So Tesla has a big Battery plant he's put in, more than likely he'll have a research division, with a good staff we should be able to get better batteries although right now we seem to have the range we need. The more the batteries are used the more data you have on them to find problems and make improvements. I think we are just at he beginning. I'm already impressed about the lead acid batteries and how much they have improved over the years but it took time.
Carl2
this just came out, and I thought it was intersting.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rybpaqhg5Qg
Great video again from Fully Charged :thumbsup:
The bit at the beginning with all EV's on the road, a glimpse in to the future, fantastic.
So much renewable energy why not use the leftover to make hydrogen, again great idea.
A positive and clean future is within our grasp, if we believe and I do truly believe :)
The 21st century will see the end of burning coal, gas and oil :yahoo:
I'm afraid that we Yanks might be at least one of many that could prove that false, though I pray I'm wrong. The major laggards will likely be us, Russia and friends, and China. Possibly India, too, but that remains to be seen. Granted, we have 82 years in which to accomplish a fully renewable future, but there are a lot of countries that are as hidebound and recalcitrant as you can get. :sign-sad:
Still, I'm rooting for us all. :)
Very interesting.
Even all cars being EV doesn't make much of a dent to their oil burning but I like the way they're bootstrapping the tech to get the boats (and presumably the trucks and home heating) to be HFC/EV. You can't do everything in one step unless you invest more ££$$, make economic sense to do it the way they are.
I've heard our biggest threat is from over population from one of the great thinkers. Actually if the population today was much less burning of these filthy things wouldn't be causing the problems we now have.
Carl2
Quote from: Carl2 on February 03, 2018, 18:43:36 PM
Actually if the population today was much less burning of these filthy things wouldn't be causing the problems we now have.
Carl2
While that's true, Carl, I don't think that's the way to look at it. the planet (read: NOT we Humans) can "ignore" up to a certain amount of what we do to it, but we've already exceeded that amount. the planet can also heal itself, given time, from a certain (rather high) amount of damage that we cause. What that level of damage is, and how close we are to it is anyone's guess, but I think it's fairly safe to say that we're more than halfway between those to levels. Moreover, it's quite possible that even if we never reach that ecological "point of no return", the Earth, just like any other living organism, may well develop "antibodies" to combat the threat that is Humanity. Evolution is a marvelous thing, and when combined with the accelerated genetic mutation caused by radiation (think Chernobyl and Fukushima here), it's not inconceivable that something could well evolve from a previously harmless species, even the common cold, that could wipe us off the planet in a generation or less. Granted, the likeliness of this scenario is really low, but the possibility is NOT zero. Even overpopulation could be, if not the trigger, at least a contributing factor. Best to fight the battle on all sides, I think.
You bring up a lot of good points that I can't argue with, I guess we can say the Earths reaction to our burning filthy fuels is to get warmer causing higher ocean levels. We will have more people with less living space which will probably result in disease spreading causing more deaths quicker. This is much quicker than wait for evolution to make necessary changes. I've already heard the temp changes are already affecting animals such as the Artic bear and birds that migrate.
Carl2
For many years the humans were like children playing their games, everything was fine in their little bubble and mother Earth looked after them.
Then the humans turned into teenagers, still playing games but more serious games with consequences to mother Earth.
Now the humans are growing in to adults and have to learn how to become the guardians of mother Earth. It will not be easy, they will make many mistakes on the way but it's time to get serious.
Are they up to the task ?
Hmmm. Deep thinking philosophy thread required.
Quote from: Snowcrash on February 04, 2018, 22:29:59 PM
Hmmm. Deep thinking philosophy thread required.
Maybe, or maybe it's just a simple matter of looking after the environment.
Deep Thinking Electricity ;D
Deep thinking philosophy, I'd agree with that. I really think the people handling these problems are more concerned with making a profit from the situation we are caught up in.
Carl2
Quote from: Carl2 on February 05, 2018, 15:03:07 PM
I really think the people handling these problems are more concerned with making a profit from the situation we are caught up in.
Carl2
Interesting conspiracy theory Carl.
We do know that renewable energy is cheaper to make, I guess you think the energy companies are making even more money from their customers ?
Let's not forget that it cost a lot of cash to make these solar and wind farms, that money has to come from somewhere.
We were talking about heat pumps in another thread for cooling CPU's, it's strange how things happen but the latest Fully Charged video is about heat pumps on a much larger scale.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWgkl7W9xU0
I haven't heard much about heat pumps here so the information was interesting. How to make it useful to me is another thing.
Carl2
Most modern central AC units here in the US are types of heat pumps, but they rely on a "phase change" (e.g. liquid transforming to gas and then back) to facilitate the transfer of heat from one environment to another. Sadly, I dozed off for most of the video (wasn't boring, really; just pulled an all-nighter, so was bushed), so I didn't see any bits that explained the tech. But I know a bit about air conditioning and heat pumps that run on that tech, si I figured I'd share. :)
It's an advert but I like it :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ItpotxmU8Q
Excellent ! 8)
I forget who the song is by but it's a great choice, it works really well.
QuoteThis video is not available in your country
Liiks like I'm going to be digging up a proxy once more. :)
Quote from: Freddy on March 14, 2018, 20:45:42 PM
I forget who the song is by...
It was Slayer, Raining Blood - now that's a blast from my past !
Dave, does this version of the advert work over there is the USA ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4VmUp64kS0
If you're asking if I can view the advert, the answer is yes. If you're asking if the thing would be at least a little effective, probably. That final quote in the advert is from the movie "Network", which is oddly enough one of my all time favorite movies, but you don't have to convince me here; just the more than 60% of Americans who don't believe that our world's climate is changing, and not for the better. :)
I'm just glad you can view it now Dave after posting that you couldn't in your country, now you know what me and Freddy were talking about. That was all :)
Have a look at a nice new Tesla solar roof, the owner is going to hopefully power is house and charge his car from it, fantastic, can't help but think we are looking at the future here, the potential for this technology is massive and it's from the USA, the Yanks should be proud of this 8)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=auxp8-gPFtA
I see that Tesla are supplying more large power banks to the world, yeah their Gigafactory doesn't just make batteries for EV's.
I think the plan in the UK is to get rid of most of the gas fired power stations and replace them with power banks that can be used at times of peak demand.
Bit of info here:
https://electrek.co/2018/03/15/tesla-powerpack-project-uk/
Found this interesting...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYLzss58CLs
Was that video made in the 80's or something :scratch-head: :LOL:
Battery storage is coming both on grid and in homes, it's like the guy has never heard of it or done his research :angry:
I refer you to my previous post :thumbsup:
In a nutshell the extra free energy that solar and windfarms make will be stored in batteries to be used at peak times, job done :D
You took the words right out of my mouth, Data. :) Large scale battery grid storage may not be here quite yet, but it IS coming, and fairly soon.
I came across this article recently, it was originally posted on January 01, 2018, since then things have been moving at quite a rate.
QuoteThe UK Could Install 12 Gigawatts of Energy Storage by 2021
Full Article (https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/the-uk-could-install-12-gigawatts-of-energy-storage-by-2021#gs.lbt7bG0)
Maybe they will hit 12 Gigawatts or less or even more, we do know that they are taking it seriously and thanks to our friends across the pond (Tesla Energy) it could happen even sooner now.
Tesla Energy deploys another Powerpack project in the UK (https://electrek.co/2018/03/15/tesla-powerpack-project-uk/)
We also have new energy companies starting up to address the coming EV demands, here is one.
Balancing the Grid (https://www.pivot-power.co.uk/)
It's all good :)
I know we have looked at solar/power-wall before but it's always good to see a new one installed and get a bit more info.
This technology really does work and its here now.
Power your house and car from the sun :sign-rock-on:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maKMiD9Xk2Q
Hot off the press and some great news 8) if it happens :fingers-crossed:
QuoteElon Musk ‘to build the world’s biggest battery’ in Britain as part of £400m plans to carpet a swathe of Kent marshland with almost a million solar panels
Full Story (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5905675/Elon-Musk-build-worlds-biggest-battery-Britain-400m-solar-panel-plans.html)
Solar panels great, loss of rare wildlife not great.
Surely they can find some poor-yield farm land somewhere rather than destroy a valuable wildlife habitat...
I think you make a valid point Freddy but then I think wherever they build them people will complain. It's not finalised yet and the green campaigners that are against the project might win the fight. We need to find places to build these solar/battery farms before it's too late, the clock is ticking.
Thanks for understanding :)
I'm all for solar panel farms, but not at this kind of expense. I find this a surprising choice of venue when a lot of people pushing green technology will ague what they do has less impact on the environment - for example avoiding oil slicks. Great, no oil slicks, it's just a shame we ruined the Marsh Harrier habitat and they all died out... Double standards at best.
For those kind of reasons I think it's hypocritical to go ahead with this, it's no better than what we have now if we have to lose things like this. And this only makes me think Musk is just another money grabbing industrialist who doesn't care what impact this has on the local environment.
As I said, there must be plenty of poor ground in the UK that has low yields. There's millions of roofs. There's brown field all around. Old RAF stations have huge landing greens. What about all that land ruined by coal mining... You get the idea.
Rant over :LOL: but I will never approve of something like this, call me Nature Boy ;D
Putting my money where my mouth is, Nature Boy went and signed a petition to block it sorry :-[
:sign-peace:
Fair enough mate, in the meantime global warming is kicking in, the world is getting hotter, better not leave it too long or there won't be any life to worry about on earth.
I really hope they can find a place to build it that doesn't upset too many people.
That's what free speech is for :)
In principle I am for solar farms like you - I just feel that this location is not very well thought out. I grew up in the countryside, so maybe that's why I have a strong reaction to this one.
I believe the location was chosen to make it work in better harmony with the new Dogger Bank off-shore windfarm that they want to build, the windfarm will be the largest in the world by a long way. This is all part of the master plan for renewable energy in the 21st century.
Dogger Bank WindFarm (https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/dec/29/is-this-the-future-dutch-plan-vast-windfarm-island-in-north-sea)
Quote
There, converters will change it from alternating current – as used in mains electricity but which incurs losses of power over long distances – to direct current for transmitting back to the UK or Netherlands.
For years, I was given to understand that the above bit of information was incorrect, and for overland power transmission it still is*. However, I learned something while researching the information I needed to make this post, and as a result, have had to change my response. It seems that overland (and to a lesser extent, underground) transmissions experience greater loss per mile of conductor with direct current than with alternating current due to the resistance of the conductor. Interestingly enough, the high inductance (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/inductance) and capacitance (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/capacitance) of the conductor "turns the tables" so to speak, when the conductors are under water, making DC transmission preferable with underwater cables. Interesting. :scratch-head:
I learned something new today. :D
*
Quote from: quora
Straight wires in air have very little inductance and capacitive losses. Over the distances that mains power is transmitted, there are some losses when using AC, but the losses are small. A DC system would have better transmission efficiencies as it has lower losses, but would be more expensive and less efficient at the step-up/step-down stages.
Underwater cables however, are a different story. Underwater cables have a much higher inductance and capacitance (due to the interaction of the magnetic and electrical field with the water). An underwater AC cable would have much higher capacitive and inductive losses, and so high voltage DC cables are always used for long distance underwater power transmission.
Article here (https://www.quora.com/Why-is-alternating-current-better-for-long-distance-power-transmission-than-direct-current)
The Dutch are doing our one too, had a letter today in fact.
I just feel they need to get it right from the outset. If a precedent is set that wiping out rare wildlife habitats is okay, then I feel that would be a very sad thing to happen.
If we look back to that article; I find this comment of their's telling :
QuoteA Hive Energy spokeswoman said the firm was working to minimise the scheme's impact, claiming that sheep would graze among the panels.
They may feel that the grazing sheep will placate people, but they are in fact missing the point entirely and with that kind of naivety it shows they really don't understand the concern at all.
:(
I'm with Freddy on this, if I'm honest. You folks have a number of older coal-fired power plants that aren't in use as often as they once were. Why not take one offline and convert it into a combination solar farm/battery complex? It's entirely conceivable that it could produce a significant percentage of power that it did as a coal plant (though probably not near as much as a 6.5k acre^ solar farm), and if there's usable acreage surrounding the plant, could produce even more, if planned and constructed properly, I think. Of course, I could be talking out of the wrong end here, but...
The Eggborough Power Plant (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eggborough_power_station) is on only 370 acres (just over 1/3 the area of the one proposed in the article Data linked to), so it's not got much area to host PV panels, but it IS scheduled for shutdown in September of this year, so could make an excellent location for battery storage, and if 300 of the 370 acres were covered with a PV array, that's roughly 130MWh of electricity generated, if my calculations are correct (see below)
300 acres * 43,560 ft2/acre = 13,068,000 ft2 total (src: Quora (https://www.quora.com/In-1-acre-of-land-how-much-solar-power-can-be-generated))
1kWh = ~100 ft2 (rough, general estimate, under "normal" conditions)
13,068,000 ft2 ÷ 100 ft2 * 1kWh = 130,680kWh = 130MWh
Now granted, this doesn't take into account the availability of sunlight in the region, which, given the actual location will be less than optimal, but the NASA site (https://power.larc.nasa.gov/data-access-viewer/) for calculating such things is rather hard to read, but I believe that this is a better choice than risking ecological harm to ANY species, don't you?
^NOTE: I have no clue where that 6.kk acre figure came from. It's only some 890(?) acres, if I recall correctly. Oops?
By the way, other coal-fired power plants are scheduled to be taken offline permanently (or converted to gas/biomass) in the coming years, so this same plan could be put into place at these other locations as well. I think that the same thing should be considered over here, too. This is one area where I disagree completely with our president: No way in HELL is coal to be considered any SORT of "clean" (SMH)
Nice post Dave with some well thought-out analyses in it :thumbsup:
I'm not against Freddy here, he did bring up some valid points that I agree with, however I think we should consider a few things.
Firstly I think that we must not forget the article was published in the Daily Mail, they have a way of whipping up feelings and concentrating on the negatives, they have posted many articles that were anti electric cars and their readers love it. They will have put their slant on the article for sure.
If constructed the project will not kill off all wild life in the area, not a chance, life has a way of adapting to these changes, we have seen it time and time again, ship wrecks turning into fish houses, seagulls living on the roofs of our houses, bats and owls roosting in old barns, there are more examples but time is short.
The project wants to put the panels on a 12 foot high rack, animals will still be able to get underneath, I'm sure some animals would even like a bit of shade, other animals will find a new home under there too. I don't see it as all bad, there is plenty of good there too.
The project is also about scale, cost and time, it will be far less expensive and quicker to build one large solar/battery farm then say 3 smaller farms.
Is the project perfect ? no, only cats are perfect but it does have plenty of positives as well as negatives. :good-bad:
I'm going to leave it there but I will just add this:
QuoteScotland has recorded its hottest ever temperature, according to provisional figures from the Met Office.
Scotland 'breaks temperature record' (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-44683637)
The clock is ticking on global warming.
I also saw the bit about putting the PV panels on 12 foot racks/stands/whatever, and I think it will help, but it will also create a huge "shade footprint" that will certainly change the types of plants and/or animals that would be able to live there. Many wetland plants require a certain amount of sun, and unless those new solar panels are made to be "mostly transparent" (something we're headed toward, but aren't even close to yet), some (if not many, or even most) of the plants there won't be able to cope. I admit that I don't know enough about the location, or the tech to be used, to make a fully informed decision and that a LOT of people who are smarter than I am are working on this, but that doesn't stop me from having concerns. One reason I proposed the soon to be defunct coal plant is that much of the infrastructure necessary for the project is already in place, which would save a lot, even with the expense of refitting the facility to a storage farm. Perhaps a compromise of some sort might be in order? Something like using only half of the 800+ acres for the solar farm should be built, in addition to the conversion of Eggborough? Something to think on, yes? :)
I guess the powers that be will decide in the end, the final decision is up to them, we can only give our opinions and hope they listen and then take a balanced view.
Humans have a way of changing the landscape, Britain was once a forest, now we have towns, cities, roads all over the place but somehow the animals (including humans) and plants still survive.
Time will tell :)
You have to think more about the endangered species though. We've wiped out many habitats and destroyed far too much to be complacent and hope that nature soldiers on. Once an animal or plant is extinct, that's it, game over. Too sad.
Quote from: Freddy on July 03, 2018, 11:14:16 AM
You have to think more about the endangered species though. We've wiped out many habitats and destroyed far too much to be complacent and hope that nature soldiers on. Once an animal or plant is extinct, that's it, game over. Too sad.
I think that will have been taken into account mate, Britain has one of the strongest animal rights laws in the world. The Daily Mail on the other hand has no morals other than to make money :(
You're more trusting of big business and politics than me Data :LOL:
Agreed about the Mail though. The Guardian are often more neutral even if it's considered on the left.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoy4_h7Pb3M
While this is a Fully Charged video, I think it's more appropriate to post it here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQ2Eo6wl5r0
Great to see graphene being used in a real world product :)
These Ultra Capacitors should start to find their way in to all kinds of energy storage now, who knows we might start to see hybrid Lithium-ion/Ultra Capacitors BEV's coming to market sooner than later.
This is interesting:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8Numo7nokY
Seems like the UK is getting more serious about battery farms now :)
QuoteEnergy storage firm Pivot Power has announced plans for a £25 million 'grid-scale' battery and electric vehicle charging hub on the outskirts of Southampton.
The site will be the first of a proposed 45 location operated by the company, it says, that will combine large-scale battery storage with rapid charging facilities for electric vehicles.
QuoteTest Valley borough council has given the company permission to install a 50MW battery at Nursling electricity substation at a cost of up to £25 million, which it expects to be operational by July 2019.
https://www.airqualitynews.com/2018/07/23/plans-for-southampton-battery-and-ev-charging-sites-unveiled/
Another battery energy storage system, charge the batteries when the electricity is cheaper and use it at peak times, another smart idea :)
Also some more info about smart meters.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZDllPFmXNg
Rethinking Electricity, interesting topic I'm interested in. Really to much information presented in the last two vids to comment on. Nice to see these projects moving forward.
Carl2
I'm glad you find the topic interesting Carl :)
I think it's going to be one of the biggest changes we see in the 21st century and should help the human race towards a cleaner future.
We can't all work in the sector but we can all do our bit in our every day lives.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxtwrCeYm_I
I think this could be good news and another step in the right direction.
QuoteScottish Power will become the first major UK energy company to generate all its electricity from wind power instead of coal and gas, after selling its final gas and hydro stations to Drax.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45873785
Found this on solid state batteries. Not sure where they're at and no commercial product... yet.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPh2879pyw0&t=777s
The last I heard, wish I could recall where it was but one of the companies developing solid state batteries had a working prototype that charged very quickly and had a larger capacity than standard lithium iron, it had a problem though, it would discharge itself far too quickly, leaving you with a flat battery in just a few hours or days.
This TED talk is slightly off topic as it is talking about all energy, not just electricity, but I thought it gives some good ideas.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0W1ZZYIV8o
I see the author of the video has passed away :(
RIP David MacKay
Interesting video but quite old now, the UK has already got around 3 to 4 X more renewable energy than was stated in the video, also solar panels are more efficient now, wind farms are fitted out at sea, bio fuel in cars ? no no no, Electric cars are here NOW. Lets also not forget energy storage which is starting to happen.
It's hard to see into the future but nice to see how far we have come since the video was made :)
I have attached an image of the UK's power mix taken today at 9pm, no solar as it's night time.
NOTE: 53% low carbon electricity 8)
0% coal and only 35% gas, a lot better than the 90% stated in the video. We are getting there :hunting:
[attachment deleted by admin]
The 90% was total energy, so heating, transport, industry etc.
The main thing I took from the vid was "we can't do it all with green energy". Our country's not big enough. We need to cut down as well and possibly fusion?
Quote from: Snowcrash on February 12, 2019, 20:15:14 PM
"we can't do it all with green energy". Our country's not big enough.
There is a lot of sea around our country, I didn't hear him mention any of the windfarms we have out there :scratch-head:
Quote from: Data on February 12, 2019, 21:16:23 PMI didn't hear him mention any of the windfarms we have out there :scratch-head:
That's not surprising, really. At the time that vid was made, you probably didn't have a tenth of the number of wind turbines running that you do now. :)
Yes exactly Dave :)
The video is called a "reality check" I think it's time for a rethinking of that "reality". Technology has already come a long way in such a short space of time, we are still building wind farms, hydro power is coming, battery storage including "car to grid" technology will happen too, none of that was taken into account in the vid. Will we ever get to 100% renewable? Maybe not but I think we can get close 8)
Quote from: Snowcrash on February 12, 2019, 20:15:14 PM
The 90% was total energy, so heating, transport, industry etc.
Lets have a little look at them then:
Heating, efficient electric heat-pumps can be used.
Transport, electric cars, hydrogen powered heavy goods vehicles, trains, ships.
Industry, this is an interesting one, much of our industry uses electricity, that is already taken into account in our electricity mix charts posted above, some industries do still use gas I acknowledge that.
Once we stop refining oil we will save a huge amount of power too :)
Being so old I still remember the days when the US was getting so much wood from the trees in South America and a lot of people got upset saying leave the trees in the rain forest alone, no one listened. As today even the President doesn't take the climate change seriously. So at one time we had plants use out waste carbon dioxide and convert it to oxygen, populations grow producing more carbon dioxide and plant life declines converting less oxygen. Possibly a way to change carbon dioxide to oxygen would be nice. Something for the chemists to do rather than make drugs that may cause who know what.
Carl2
Please do not think my engineering pragmatism is in any way negative. I am all for renewables and nuclear (fission, fusion (when/if it comes) and thorium) to combat our dependence on oil.
Found this interesting graph from the UK DoE. It covers up to the first quarter 2018. Electricity is the best at almost 30% from renewables. Overall percentage is 10%, that leaves 90%, the majority of which comes from oil one way or another. That TED talk was not far off of the mark from where we are now.
If we all used 50% less electricity, the 30% we generate now would be 60% without generating another watt. Efficiencies are part of the larger picture. If our energy needs stay the same and we got everything from renewables, we would need a bigger country. The difference is imports or oil.
Data from here. (https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/720182/Press_Notice_June_18.pdf)
UK percentage renewables 2004-2017
[attachment deleted by admin]
Maybe I'm thick but I don't understand the graph.
Carl2
Oops, maybe I missed a heading. UK percentage renewables 2004-2017 ish from Q1 2018 document linked.
Going back to add...
Quote from: Snowcrash on February 16, 2019, 10:50:04 AM
If our energy needs stay the same and we got everything from renewables, we would need a bigger country.
What about all the sea around our country, we have many windfarms out there already, according to live stats they are make around 25% to 35% of the UK's power already, are you try to convince me that they are only making 10% of our power needs, cos I'm not buying it.
https://infogram.com/live-dashboard-gb-electricity-mix-1h0n25ze0vjz2pe
What are you not buying?
30% of electricity, over the 1st quarter 2018, was generated by renewables. We heat with oil, we drive with oil, we fly aircraft with oil. Add all the energy together and renewables account for 10% and growing. The overall line on the graph.
Quote from: Snowcrash on February 16, 2019, 12:42:22 PM
What are you not buying?
We heat with oil, we drive with oil, we fly aircraft with oil.
Mostly we heat with gas.
We drive with oil? don't include me and all the other EV owners in that ;)
We fly aircraft with oil, I'll give ya that one.
That TED talk video did not mention offshore wind farms, the UK already has over 30 of them and many more are planed. In fact I don't recall him even mentioning our oceans :scratch-head:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_offshore_wind_farms_in_the_United_Kingdom
When I say oil, I mean fossil fuels in general. Gas/oil/coal
Quote
That TED talk video did not mention offshore wind farms, the UK already has over 30 of them and many more are planed. In fact I don't recall him even mentioning our oceans :scratch-head:
Go to 16:52 the top right box is wind. There are may smaller boxes of that colour dotted around the seas. This is to account for 16kWh per household when we use 125kWh. We need to be more efficient or get a bigger country.
I know you like to find negatives Snowy you always have but remember the sea is much larger than the land, if we utilise it more, which we will, then we don't need a bigger country, you must agree with that.
Okay makes more sense now, thanks.
Carl2
Snowy I do take your points on-board and understand that you are not only talking
about electricity, however, I also believe the video was based on the technology at the time (10 years ago) and things have moved on.
Quote from: Snowcrash on February 16, 2019, 14:08:04 PM
We need to be more efficient or get a bigger country.
Or what will probably happen will be both, the UK's power consumption is already decreasing as people buy newer more efficient appliances, that also includes the thousands of EV's on our roads, a quick Google finds this:
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/jan/30/uk-electricity-use-falling-economy-weather
A bigger country, as we have already been talking about, we can use the sea, I guess you could class that as a bigger country.
What I think would be one of the best things to do would be solar panels on many houses, factories, buildings, combine that with modern power walls (battery storage) in the houses, factories etc, that would get us much closer to the end goal.
Other industries could be partly/mostly powered with the offshore wind farms.
Heating, we now have modern heat-pumps.
That mostly leaves transport, trucks busses large vehicles are well suited to hydrogen power, OK the hydrogen has to be made but that can be included in "industry".
Cars, well we know they are going to be EV in the 21st century, many could be charged with peoples home solar panels and power walls.
One of the big keys to this will be to stop refining such large amounts of oil. the power saving will be massive.
It "was" a good video but out dated now, I truly believe that.
Moving on then to more offshore wind farms - this was posted on 18 Feb 2019, it is faze one of a much larger project.
QuoteWorld's largest offshore wind farm generates electricity for the first time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgRPjCQn7Tw
Pretty impressive stuff 8)
The wind was blowing quite hard this evening so I checked the live electricity mix, ok this is off peak hours so it doesn't give an accurate all-day reading but impressive anyway.
We are getting closer all the time :hunting:
46% wind 8)
[attachment deleted by admin]
Since over here we don't do much about wind power but maybe we can learn from what you do there.
Interesting.
Carl2
The trend continues with a record breaking year so far.
QuoteClean electricity overtaking fossil fuels in Britain
For the first time since the Industrial Revolution, Britain is obtaining more power from zero-carbon sources than fossil fuels.
The milestone has been passed for the first five months of 2019.
Full Story (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-48711649)
Nice to see that, guess I like the fact that they are switching to electrical control of things rather than mechanical methods. Its given us Alexa who can now understand voice commands and perform an action. Computers have also come a long way.
Carl2
Thought this was an interesting video, a modern solar panel installation and how it performs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rCKYm1BJYY
EON are now doing 100% renewable energy.
https://www.eonenergy.com/blog/2019/July/renewable-electricity-as-standard
I noticed on the map that offshore wind is the biggest single generator of EON's clean energy, I also noticed that there are plenty more places at sea to install new wind farms, we do need more.
We can do this 8)
First Light Fusion: The Future of Electricity Generation and a Clean Base Load? | Fully ChargedSource: First Light Fusion: The Future of Electricity Generation and a Clean Base Load? | Fully Charged (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1RsHQCMRTw)
All Fully Charged videos can be found here:
Fully Charged on YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzz4CoEgSgWNs9ZAvRMhW2A)
I listened to all the words during the explanation but have to admit I don't think I understand the concept. I still don't understand how you get more energy output than the energy put in.
Carl2
I've merged the First Light Fusion post into to this thread.
I wish them the best of luck, they seem to be deadly serious and know what they are doing, hey! if it kills off the majority of the oil companies ... 8)
In the meantime we need to carry on with renewable energy.
Quote from the video:
"Can we become 100% renewable ... yes we can"
OK it will take time and money but we know it works, fusion on the other hand still feels many years away.
This looks like a neat idea for energy storage.
QuoteIt sounds like magic but it is real - a plan to store cheap night-time wind energy in the form of liquid air
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50140110
That is clever. It's refreshing to see so many greener ideas coming out now. Hopefully the old ways will be replaced in time.
I wonder how efficient it is but I'm sure it has it's place. Similar ideas to water storage in electric mountain (https://www.electricmountain.co.uk/About-Pumped-Storage).
Quote
The proposed grid-scale project will supply electricity to around 25,000 homes for a day, although realistically it will only be used for short periods to cover sudden peaks in demand.
Basically the same niche as batteries. Wonder how the costs stack up.
I agree Snowy, it is basically a battery to add to our battery farms, we are going to need a lot of these as we move over to renewables, such a simple idea too. Why didn't I think of it :LOL:
Some great news:
Fracking banned in the UK :yahoo:
QuoteThe government has banned fracking with immediate effect in a watershed moment for environmentalists and community activists.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/nov/02/fracking-banned-in-uk-as-government-makes-major-u-turn
Wow that is good news! I will join you with a :yahoo:
Quote from: The Guardian
This article was corrected on 2 November 2019 to make clear that the government has halted, but not banned fracking as stated in an earlier version, and that the moratorium applies only to England as it is a devolved issue. Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland already have measures in place against fracking.
So, not quite banned, but as near as one can get while still protecting their political hides. :-\
That quote, BTW, was at the very end of the article, with no anchor tag to point to the given paragraph. Sorry. :)
I guess any ban could be undone by the next government if it wanted to, at least for now it's all been stopped.
Thanks for pointing the correction out Dave :)
Can you run your house off a battery? Tesla Powerwall 2 (Founders Series) & Tesla Backup Gateway 2Source: Can you run your house off a battery? Tesla Powerwall 2 (Founders Series) & Tesla Backup Gateway 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gP51JjnWvLo)
All Fully Charged videos can be found here:
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An example of the rich get richer and the poor bet poorer.
Carl2
Quote from: Carl2 on December 13, 2019, 13:00:48 PM
An example of the rich get richer and the poor bet poorer.
Carl2
Yes maybe for now but this is the kind of technology that will help us all get to 100% renewable energy, the more people that install a battery and solar in their house the more renewable energy for the rest of us.
I've just learned that Amazon has a large selection of snow blowers which I'm glad about, nice to see the switch from gas engines to electric motors.
Carl2
2019 has gone and the latest figures are in for the UK's electricity mix.
It was the best year so far for renewables and low carbon energy generation, also more electricity came from renewables than fossil fuels 8)
https://news.sky.com/story/more-power-came-from-renewable-energy-than-fossil-fuels-in-uk-in-2019-11898806
Can Texas take California's Clean Energy Crown? | Fully ChargedSource: Can Texas take California's Clean Energy Crown? | Fully Charged (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNXisoMYi_Y)
All Fully Charged videos can be found here:
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National Grid ESO's Green Energy Success Story | FULLY CHARGED for Clean Energy & Electric VehiclesSource: National Grid ESO's Green Energy Success Story | FULLY CHARGED for Clean Energy & Electric Vehicles (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONp8dismI-Q)
All Fully Charged videos can be found here:
Fully Charged on YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzz4CoEgSgWNs9ZAvRMhW2A)
Tesla Powerwall: how quickly can it respond to a power cut? | FULLY CHARGED for clean energy & EVsSource: Tesla Powerwall: how quickly can it respond to a power cut? | FULLY CHARGED for clean energy & EVs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xuleBA4Zcg)
All Fully Charged videos can be found here:
Fully Charged on YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzz4CoEgSgWNs9ZAvRMhW2A)
Didn't we do well over the last 10 years, exciting times :look-up:
More good news:
QuoteBritain is about to pass a significant landmark - at midnight on Wednesday it will have gone two full months without burning coal to generate power.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-52973089
Can you HEAT & POWER a big house with RENEWABLES? | FULLY CHARGED for clean energy & electric cars.Source: Can you HEAT & POWER a big house with RENEWABLES? | FULLY CHARGED for clean energy & electric cars. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSE8PurhfQs)
All Fully Charged videos can be found here:
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How energy storage will kill fossil fuel.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DFKxoD_a3k
Found this on the economics of electricity generation. Thought it apt for this thread.
https://youtu.be/UC_BCz0pzMw
Interesting video, it feels a bit last century to me, which is good because it shows how we used to think, the best bit was near the end when he talked more about renewables, they are cheap and not finite :thumbsup:
Looking forward to the near future we need a way to put power into the grid for when the sun isn't shining or the wind isn't blowing, ok we all know that already. We also need more solar and wind energy to store and that is coming.
Hybrid supercapacitors / lithium ion storage looks interesting.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7T-6XdiRTw
This is rather apt and fits in nicely with my previous post.
QuoteUK energy plant to use liquid air
Work is beginning on what is thought to be the world's first major plant to store energy in the form of liquid air.
It will use surplus electricity from wind farms at night to compress air so hard that it becomes a liquid at -196 Celsius.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-54841528
Found this. Not really thought about mechanical batteries...
https://youtu.be/_QLEERYS5C8
As I see the power generation problem, solar-wind-wave are all good but can only supplement the grid due to their intermittent nature. At some points they may be able to supplement 100% and that's great.
Batteries, whether chemical-mechanical-water/air storage are there to iron out the peeks and troughs of the power curve. They do not generate and you can't be certain they store enough.
You still need a way of generating your base load. Nuclear is the greenest but has its issues. Gas is the cheapest and quickest return on investment. For 10GW of nuclear generation produces 4 x more power, in a year, than 10GW of wind.
More investment into making our home less reliant on the grid and getting nuclear fusion to work seem the best ways forward.
Yeah fair points but we have to stop our addiction to gas, if nothing else it's going to run out at some point, then what?
Building houses with solar on the roofs is happening now, I've seen it near me where a new estate is being built, solar fitted as standard, imagine most buildings with solar, what am impact that would have.
I can't help but think nuclear fusion is as possibility but too far off to help now.
The UK are currently looking at building mini-nuclear plants.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-54703204
Found this, not heard of aluminium air batteries before. Recharging batteries is way more convenient than swapping out an aluminium cathode but this technology is sure to have its place.
https://youtu.be/z0RU_ck64Bs
Quote from: Snowcrash on February 25, 2021, 17:47:31 PM
Found this, not heard of aluminium air batteries before. Recharging batteries is way more convenient than swapping out an aluminium cathode but this technology is sure to have its place.
I agree with you Snowy.
Also want to correct something she said in the video:
Quote"98% of Lithium-ion batteries end up in land fill"
That statement is incorrect.
Every single car manufacturer has an end-of-life reusing/recycling scheme.
Found this about hot liquid aluminium batteries. Not for every application but interesting tech.
https://youtu.be/FZHqIKIHSWo