Quote from: Snowcrash on January 23, 2017, 20:52:36 PM
Slightly off topic but interesting. Feel free to move to another thread, Data.

Yup interesting video Snowy

I'm still to be convinced about Self-Driving Cars, closer to believing in them than ever before but ...

If nothing else I enjoy driving (most of the time), its about the only time I can really be in control of my life 

I can see this technology being used in cars more for the disabled and the older generation. The latter couldn't come quick enough 

  Over here in the US the state has issued a permit to a self driving car for them to have a testing ground.  I think also a lot of large companies moving goods around the country are interested in the self driving vehicles to replace drivers. There is a long way to go but it has to start somewhere.
Carl2

Going to bring this back on topic with some figures that seem to speak for themselves.

This chap has had a Nissan Leaf for 5 years now and has worked out the fuel cost savings and they are huge.

In 5 years he has done 51000 miles in the Leaf and it cost him $870 in electricity.

The same mileage in a petrol vehicle would have cost around $11600

Now give or take for electricity and fuel cost variation from country to country, and engine size, whichever way you look at this the money savings do speak for themselves.

I will gladly listen to anyone who can poo poo this with fact, but please don't poo poo it with poo poo. 

Pretty good numbers. Worse case and you need to replace battery, add £5,000. Not sure about exchange rates but assuming you lose half of savings it's not too bad.

Only other downside would be initial cost. Typical seems about £20,000 but from £16,680. Approx. £8,000 more than a petrol equivalent. Nissan site.

Good points Snowy and don't forget you save money on paying no road tax (in the UK), also save on servicing, it's mainly tyres and brakes but even the brakes last longer due to regenerative braking. So if you had to replace the battery you would still be quids in.

I don't know if you watched the whole video but he shows that after 51000 miles the battery had lost 1 bar. I don't know if that is typical of the battery life but ...

Don't think I would buy a new Leaf, depreciation on new cars being as it is but a 2 or maybe 3 year old Leaf with a good battery ( one that still shows all bars when fully charged ) might be the way to go. 

Most EV's here are comparable to mid-size cars, price-wise, but the majority of Americans are still foolishly in love with their SUVs and luxury models, so until there's a larger price incentive, or they start making something that can travel for more than 150 miles the people here will probably not be interested, quite yet. But give us time. We Yanks are often slow at the start, but once we latch onto an idea, we don't let go.

  Very nice video he put out and he certainly made it sound good, I wish he mentioned how well they handle in the snow.  They latest thing I had read about the electric cars were how fast they were from 0 to 60, 2.5 seconds.
Carl2

Interesting vid. Nissan only offer the low capacity battery as a replacement, 24kWh not 30kWh.

And from the electric aircraft thread with some additions.

Found some actual 2016 figures.

USA 17,539k cars sold, 80k EV, 64K PHEV sold with 570k EV + PHEV registered.
UK 2,690k cars sold, 10k EV, 26k PHEV sold with 91k EV + PHEV registered.

PHEV = plug-in hybrid electric vehicle

Looks like USA is embracing the EV better than the UK but we're better on hybrids and overall. 0.46% to 0.37% new EV sales and 0.36% to 0.96% new PHEV sales. 0.82% to 1.3% overall.
I think UK targets are 20% EV + PHEV by 2020 but they're looking ambitious.

Quote from: Snowcrash on March 25, 2017, 13:34:39 PM
Interesting vid. Nissan only offer the low capacity battery as a replacement, 24kWh not 30kWh.

I watched that a while back, the new 24kw battery is better than the 7 year old version, good to see they have improved already, this only applies to the 24kw Leaf too, doesn't effect the 30kw model which already has the newer battery as well.

Being someone that does a small amount of miles and looking through the secondhand Leafs I see for sale, the sweet spot for me is something like a 2014 / 15 model with about 10 to 15 thousand miles on the clock. That will have the newer 24kw battery and should be good for another 40,000 miles or so.

I'm still thinking about getting a Leaf, all this info is good to know.     

Hopefully this kind of thing will not happen again.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/mar/10/volkswagen-vw-pleads-guilty-criminal-charges-emissions-cheating

At least Volkswagen have admitted their mistakes, what they did by "covering up" was wrong but I do give them a little credit for their turn around. Ok they had to because they were found out but ..

However some news I've seen recently is worrying and saddens me. Not going to make this political but .. with all the very hard work we have been doing with sola and wind power, we were actually getting there and making a greener environment, things were looking good for the future, then along came a chap that thinks coal is clean and environmentally friendly.

It's true, you couldn't make this up. even though I find it almost impossible to believe.

A sad day for the planet I think.      

  Being an American and watching vids of people in certain parts of America saying they have been unemployed for 10 to 20 years.  I've also seen vids of repossessed houses which has happened in my own neighborhoods. We have empty stores and so many stores closing or cutting back on the number of stores.  Meanwhile the Government says the economy is doing good.  The way our system works is if you lose a job you can collect unemployment for a limited time and you are listed as unemployed after the time limit you are not listed as unemployed,  you kind of disappear and are no longer a problem.
  It is kind of like the chemistry sets that can no longer be sold because of liability, doctors that get sued and the largest bill they have is their insurance.  Let the government cut back on all the protection they offer us and see how it works for a while.  Damn we are even told how to think, remember you can't say that. 
  Just another point of view.
Carl2

I can't disagree with anything you said there Carl, people need jobs.

It would be nice if more politicians would start to embrace new green technologies and actually believe in them, give them a chance. I mean there must be jobs to be had in the production of sola panels, windmills, batteries.

Sure it's going to take some government investment but that's a small price to pay, well I think it is.

Two things, Data:

1.)

Quote from: Data on March 30, 2017, 13:44:21 PMSure it's going to take some government investment but that's a small price to pay, well I think it is.

That would be all well and good if our government knew how to spend money without overspending it.

2.)

Quote from: Data on March 30, 2017, 13:44:21 PMIt would be nice if more politicians would start to embrace new green technologies and actually believe in them, give them a chance.

I'm sure that what most politicians are worried about is that by investing in these green technologies, our dependence on fossil fuels (and the companies that provide them) will drop off (which is a GOOD thing, IMHO), causing big oil to lose profits, which means fewer lobbying dollars, which means less money for the politicians. Everyone in Washington has their heads up someone's arse, and that's NOT a good thing!